500 Dailies - reflections

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500 Dailies - reflections

Postby Tinker on Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:46 pm

Today we had the 500th DERP, which looks like a nice big round number, so I thought I'd share my thoughts on this cool feature, and maybe some other people will take the opportunity to share their thoughts as well! Anyway; rant ensues! :lol:

I really like how there were no outright unwinnable Dailies. There were some close calls, and there were some Dailies that were unwinnable unless you picked the right prep(s) (usually, wallbreak, or the Wicked Guitar in the case of one specific Goat run; or Taurog in the case of a Half-Dragon run unless you knew about the Whupaz trick). That said, the difficulty of each Daily fluctuates a lot; and if anything, it just sheds light on a basic contradiction in Desktop Dungeons: that it's a fairly hard-core game packaged as a casual game.

I really liked how you can sometimes pick normally impossible prep combinations. Like multiple altars, multiple mage tower preps, or things like the Sticky Stick / Dragon Heart. I would appreciate seeing some more sub-only items being available, at the top of my list is the Cracked Soul Orb, which has become my default preparation for pretty much all of my casual runs (which is basically, misclick protection). I've also used the Gorgward and the Crumbling Ward fairly extensively on specific maps / with specific builds. And I'm sure there are others, I mean the Fake Beard for example is an item both hilarious and tactically interesting.

I really liked the community discussion surrounding each Daily. It has become much more streamlined and it's generated by a handful of regulars, though I think a lot of players do come to check the spoilers posted, and possibly to marvel at the scores of the XP crowd... :lol: And there are some new faces who joined lately, probably thanks to an interesting or toughie DERP more than anything else.

I'm not really sure what the scoring system is intended to show... We kind of made an ad-hoc mini-competition around "Top XP", so now we understand it much better how to get lots of XP in a run; and I know a lot of people use the "Fastest Time" as the competition. Piety seems more of a by-product of high-XP play, and I still haven't figured out what "Damage" is supposed to tell me... I guess this is not so much the DERP's fault (or anyone's, really), it's just that DD is a single-player game that doesn't have a built-in high-score system, and so it's very hard to compare the performance of players who are basically each playing their own game. With hindsight, I guess having a "Badges" column would've been cool, it probably would've triggered more interesting competitions than "Damage" or "Piety" does...

The question of "death confirmation" also came into my mind a couple of times. I'd have a streak of 500 today if there was a function like that. (Ok, not 500, there was one server bug early on, so probably 470 or something), as all my losses were thanks to misclicks or clicking too quickly... which is, really, quite unavoidable; you make probably 100s of clicks during the course of a single game, it's perfectly human to twitch once or twice, this is one reason why you have UNDO in applications. For example, just yesterday I accidentally deleted a bookmarks folder from my browser, I simply clicked "undo" and voilà, it's back! And Firefox didn't even give me a tongue-in-cheek remark about Mr. Kane's sled. (Ok, I just re-read and this sounds too whiny! That's not intended. I don't mind not having a streak of 500, it would be totally boring, and probably at least five other top players would have the same. It's just that it's frustrating each time it happens, to lose a run that I've already thought through how to win, due to clumsiness! :roll: I always want to go back and replay it.)

Now, I wonder what the next 500 Dailies will be like? ;)

By the way, there's also a bit of shameless bragging; I played in every single one of these 500 Dailies, and I still managed to keep a good winrate! :roll:

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Re: 500 Dailies - reflections

Postby letsdance on Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:19 pm

accidental death clicks is the reason why i stopped playing this game about a year ago. really sad :-/ last week i started a new kingdom and played a bit, but it's nowhere as much fun as it could be. i checked here to see if there might be some hope :) but i knew it's in vain :-(
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Re: 500 Dailies - reflections

Postby zayyeh on Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:30 am

letsdance wrote:accidental death clicks is the reason why i stopped playing this game about a year ago. really sad :-/ last week i started a new kingdom and played a bit, but it's nowhere as much fun as it could be. i checked here to see if there might be some hope :) but i knew it's in vain :-(


Have you tried to use Right mouse button for a kill? For me, it solved the question of accidental double click..
Sure, it will take some time to adjust your playstyle, but believe me, it is really great that developers added this option.
With this option enabled you can move very fast through the instance w/o worrying of accidentally hitting someone, you can Left click all your fireballs with great speed and so on.
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Download over at ddmod.weebly.com.
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Re: 500 Dailies - reflections

Postby Tinker on Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:23 am

Either nobody else has an opinion about the Dailies or the bragging part didn't encourage... But you don't need a 90%+ winrate to have an opinion (and having a good winrate doesn't really make your opinion any more or less valid). Or maybe people just burned out scraping by daily after daily? :roll:

zayyeh wrote:Have you tried to use Right mouse button for a kill? For me, it solved the question of accidental double click..

That helps a lot; but it still doesn't allow you to play perfectly. You can still mis-click yourself to death (I know, I've done it, I racked up two accidental double-click deaths in the last couple of months :lol:).
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Re: 500 Dailies - reflections

Postby Lynzkar on Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:39 pm

Oh man, it has really allready been that long scince the DERPs. I really should do them more often.
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Re: 500 Dailies - reflections

Postby Vemb on Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:26 pm

Tinker wrote:Either nobody else has an opinion about the Dailies or the bragging part didn't encourage... But you don't need a 90%+ winrate to have an opinion (and having a good winrate doesn't really make your opinion any more or less valid). Or maybe people just burned out scraping by daily after daily? :roll:


But I still haven't played my 500th Daily!

Well, actual reason is that I really don't browse much these forums except for the Dailies thread.

Tinker wrote:I really like how there were no outright unwinnable Dailies. There were some close calls, and there were some Dailies that were unwinnable unless you picked the right prep(s) (usually, wallbreak, or the Wicked Guitar in the case of one specific Goat run; or Taurog in the case of a Half-Dragon run unless you knew about the Whupaz trick). That said, the difficulty of each Daily fluctuates a lot; and if anything, it just sheds light on a basic contradiction in Desktop Dungeons: that it's a fairly hard-core game packaged as a casual game.


I really do dislike those almost unwinnable dailies. Forcing particular preparations makes them nasty for those who play early without that knowledge, also it makes the game less diverse. That particular Goat run also practically required people to know where to go so it was very bad. Thankfully those kinds of dailies are rare.

I really liked how you can sometimes pick normally impossible prep combinations. Like multiple altars, multiple mage tower preps, or things like the Sticky Stick / Dragon Heart.


I agree completely. They make the dailies much more interesting than normal runs.

I really liked the community discussion surrounding each Daily. It has become much more streamlined and it's generated by a handful of regulars


It is funny that it seems like most discussed Dailies are the hardest ones and sometimes the incredibly easy ones where we usually end up discussing how to maximize XP.

I'm not really sure what the scoring system is intended to show... We kind of made an ad-hoc mini-competition around "Top XP", so now we understand it much better how to get lots of XP in a run; and I know a lot of people use the "Fastest Time" as the competition. Piety seems more of a by-product of high-XP play, and I still haven't figured out what "Damage" is supposed to tell me... I guess this is not so much the DERP's fault (or anyone's, really), it's just that DD is a single-player game that doesn't have a built-in high-score system, and so it's very hard to compare the performance of players who are basically each playing their own game. With hindsight, I guess having a "Badges" column would've been cool, it probably would've triggered more interesting competitions than "Damage" or "Piety" does...


Personally I would like "Money" column. That woud be somewhat interesting because by maximizing it you are sacrificing your effectivenes by not buying equipment, using Tribute or potions. It would also make Bet on Boss preparation more relevant (to be honest maybe too relevant). That would also be very thematic - the adventurers do these quests to finance the kingdom after all.

The question of "death confirmation" also came into my mind a couple of times.


While I don't mind dying to doing stupid choices I do dislike misclick deaths. Arguably avoiding misclicks is also skill, granted it might not be very interesting skill.

Overall I like the Dailies a lot. I need to regularly play games to keep me interested in them even if I absolutely love the game. Since I don't really care about rainbowing the map I have long stretches of time when I don't really play much outside Dailies.
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Re: 500 Dailies - reflections

Postby Tinker on Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:05 am

Lynzkar wrote:Oh man, it has really allready been that long scince the DERPs. I really should do them more often.

You really-really should! :D

Vemb wrote:But I still haven't played my 500th Daily!

:D

I really do dislike those almost unwinnable dailies. Forcing particular preparations makes them nasty for those who play early without that knowledge, also it makes the game less diverse. That particular Goat run also practically required people to know where to go so it was very bad. Thankfully those kinds of dailies are rare.

In all fairness, most of the preparations you need to win the "almost unwinnable" dailies are preparations you'd anyway take in most cases to improve your chances of not getting stuck. Like, Bear Mace is almost a no-brainer preparation, and it helped so many times. Extra Glyph also helps you get teleportation or wallbreaking magic. JJ in pretty much any case. There were only a handful of dailies where you had to take non-intuitive preps (off the top of my head: that half-dragon in MM where you needed Taurog; that Goat in Rock Garden where you pretty much needed the Wicked Guitar; and the counter-example was that Half-Dragon in Labyrinth run, where prepping Binlor meant that SMM was up against an unmovable wall, and not prepping him was the winning move).

Personally I would like "Money" column. That woud be somewhat interesting because by maximizing it you are sacrificing your effectivenes by not buying equipment, using Tribute or potions. It would also make Bet on Boss preparation more relevant (to be honest maybe too relevant). That would also be very thematic - the adventurers do these quests to finance the kingdom after all.

That would be really cool! :)

While I don't mind dying to doing stupid choices I do dislike misclick deaths. Arguably avoiding misclicks is also skill, granted it might not be very interesting skill.

Even people who have nerves of steel and who work in absolutely high-stakes professions (I'm thinking people like surgeons, race pilots, spies, etc.) sometimes twitch. I think our nervous system is simply not built for 100% accuracy. It would be really cool to have some way to avoid this, like a proper death warning, or a "rewind" functionality, or something...

Overall I like the Dailies a lot. I need to regularly play games to keep me interested in them even if I absolutely love the game. Since I don't really care about rainbowing the map I have long stretches of time when I don't really play much outside Dailies.

Rainbows are *really* colorful and shiny... And it doesn't feel like grinding, because you can always pick different strategies based on which badge you want to achieve, and where. Plus, you get loot, and that helps unlock stuff in your kingdom (though you've probably already unlocked everything there is, but anyway... ;) ).
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Re: 500 Dailies - reflections

Postby Berik on Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:15 am

Definitely agree with the call for an 'are you sure' button! I'm not a great player compared to many of you here, but I'd like to think I'm better than a best streak of 14. I'm a bit shaky though, and far too many of my losses come from a mis-click. Haven't played regularly the last few days after my last run was ended when I found myself clicking on a level 8 monster while starting off! :cry: Might need to start going with the right-clicking idea.

Don't want to sound negative though as I've really enjoyed the dailies. I'd run out of steam in playing after getting to grinding the last couple of Vicious dungeons to try and finish them off and had stopped playing much. But I've gotten back into it a lot more since the dailies started up and play most days. Still haven't gone back to finish those Vicious dungeons though!

Seeing what everybody prepares is interesting too. I've found that I almost never prepare a deity, as I find deciding on a deity strategy on the go more enjoyable and like to be surprised by the choice.

I share the uncertainty over how to treat the scores too. I usually play without a plan for the first half of a run, then start to think about building up a reasonable amount of peity later on. That tends to equate to a top 10 or thereabouts in something most runs, but seldom very high in it! A money count would certainly be interesting.
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