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QCF Design Community • View topic - Miscellaneous Questions Topic


Miscellaneous Questions Topic

All things Desktop Dungeons

Miscellaneous Questions Topic

Postby choongmyoung on Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:54 pm

It'd be very nice to have "ASK A QUESTION, GET AN ANSWER" thread for a forum. DD has a well designed learning curve, and finding all the way out to completely understanding the logics behind it is difficult. Comments from experts would be very helpful to beginners and moderate players.

I, personally, had many questions about lots of strategies, synergies and how-to-use-that-things. So I open up a miscellaneous questions thread.




Any detailed comments to Naga city Vampire run? Seven tries, all failures at the third wave.
Preps: Whupaz+Reflex+Quicksilver+Shadenfraude, Dragon Shield, Patches, Quest Items, Attack Boosters, Translocation Seal, Perserverance Badge. I usually convert everything (including potions) but BURNDAYRAZ. A lot of time this brings me to ~20% resistances, 5 stacks of life steal and 70-80 attack with lv9 character.

I'm struggling with potions, Kegs and Yendor conversion. Should I convert them all to get 8+ life steal? A video would be nice but anyways.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Topic

Postby Darvin on Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:21 pm

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Topic

Postby choongmyoung on Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:44 pm

Thanks a lot for your help! Done!
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Topic

Postby choongmyoung on Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:18 pm

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Topic

Postby Darvin on Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:46 pm

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Topic

Postby Tinker on Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:05 pm

Math's off, you count 10 popcorn for the staggered approach and only 8 for the one-time-consume. OP is actually right, munching everything upfront does provide you highest overall damage, you'd lose 30 damage in the last hit and do less overall damage.
"Thinker", just without the "ache".
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Topic

Postby Darvin on Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:23 pm

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Topic

Postby Lujo on Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:13 am

There was some point to it other than munching everything, or possibly several points.

60%+ from an ability is the most there is in the game, so if you've got that you've got the biggest class-based attack bonus in the game allready, no need to push it further. If 60% not enough you're doing something else wrong.

The other thing is that it's a sweetspot where keeping it stable and big is simple.

Eat 10 popcorn in a row you're at 150%.
Half of that is 75%.
Half of that is 37.5%
Half is 18.25%
Half is 9.125%

290% Total bonus damage.

Eat 4 popcorn hit 60%.
2 more 60%
2 more 60%
2 more 60%
no more but 30%
no more but 15%

285 or more or less the same thing, except you get one more hit out of it. If 7.5% is relevant then that too, but it's nitpicking. But if it's nitpicking one more hit and you're over 290 by 2.5 pts. And the other guy can get over that with one more hit by a few points. But 10 popcorn is low, people tended to go for more, and the higher you go the more you risk losing if you either level up or are forced to break it in any way.

However, if you ever break it by leveling up at 60, you lose the least possible ammount you can lose on a non-hit (15%), not counting being at 30% which is also perfectly fine for res stackers. Get it up to 150% (or above, 150% isn't that much), you're setting yourself up to lose more than 15 or even just 7.5.

Also - eating a bunch of popcorn is liable to level you up, or set you up to level up. Eating them bit by bit as default gives more breathing room and is prefferable unless you REAAAAAAAALY can only ever get that one big hit in for whatever reason.

The thing is that why spend everything if 60% is the most you can generally get anyway? If anything forces you to level up or attack something else or you're looking at 2 bossess being conservative generally helps. It's also written from a resist stacking perspective / tanky perspective, I'm not even sure about what happens with the double-strike approach.

And most importantly - people tended to think in terms of "Momentum is the biggest deal so I have to play Crusader runs by madly attacking everything as soon as I see it and keep momentum from killing everything", and the way the whole page is written is to really hammer home that "Momentum past 60% is semi-trivial, you're at most you ever get with anyone at 60% and the game's balanced so everything's doable below it. Calm down and pay attention to the other stuff, it's way more relevant and there are other Crusaders besides Orcs".

Anyone can figure out momentum, but people can be at the stage where they believe themselves copetent and still just see Crusader as just being about Momentum. And at the same time he's completely ludicrous in scenarios where Momentum can't possibly come into play which makes the whole "how to cheeze Momentum" thing a sidetrack from getting to be really good and versatile with the Class.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Topic

Postby choongmyoung on Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:59 am

Nice analysis, Lujo.

So yeah - even if is is mathematically optimal to go through a big one hit, you have to risk something like leveling up or fighting a 2nd boss, and getting the bonus tiny <10% damage is generally not worth it. DD is not only about calculation but also about information and strategy stuff.

BTW, I see a crusader as immunity king more than momentum. Or is it only me. ;)
My playstyle is consuming some popcorns when I need a little damage bonus while leveling, and thus conserving more resources. It also allows me to salt every popcorn.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions Topic

Postby andrewcurrall on Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:23 am

In any case, the advice on the wiki regarding this is most certainly wrong. Granted, it makes little difference, but it's still bad advice. The correct strategy when boss-fighting with a Crusader and Momentum is to kill as much as you can without leveling, hit the boss until you run out of health and mana, kill more popcorn to level (and as much as you can until you're about to level again, supposing you have enough to level twice), and repeat. Killing 1-2 popcorn between hits is pointless.
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