Choongmyoung's diary of VGT runs

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Re: Choongmyoung's diary of VGT runs

Postby choongmyoung on Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:13 pm

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I'm pretty sure the purist Paladin or Rogue with some scum (for GG and HALPMEH) are now in my comfort zone. Rogue with GG is amazing, 7-8 absolutions and enlightment boom! And I especially like the moment when I kill the goo blob via two cleansings.

No vid, I've already got the purist badge with a human rogue.
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Re: Choongmyoung's diary of VGT runs

Postby AvovA17 on Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:25 pm

choongmyoung wrote: Rogue with GG is amazing, 7-8 absolutions and enlightment boom! And I especially like the moment when I kill the goo blob via two cleansings.


What are those 2 blue beads in the log? They look different.
Are they both Enlightment (100 piety!!!!) or not? Maybe the first one is the blue bead (+1 mp for a kill)?

Also, I see you took Humility at lvl10. How come? Usually one takes it as early as possible. Is that for more efficient exploration (more hp per tile), or what?
I guess on VGT, if you stick with GG long enough, it indeed does not make sense to take Humility early, cause it is such a long map.
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Re: Choongmyoung's diary of VGT runs

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:28 pm

When you pick up your first prayer bead, it is listed in the log (as it lists every first-time pick up, be it glyph or other item). Meanwhile, the second, lit up blue bead icon is the enlightenment boon icon which is noted in the log. The blue bead item has a bag in its sprite too.

Also, I want to see you beat the new Curious VGT choong, now that it can't be Vampire cheesed and has been made slightly more playable. True props if you beat it without Fido, since that has a nerf coming its way.
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Re: Choongmyoung's diary of VGT runs

Postby choongmyoung on Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:39 am

AvovA17 wrote:What are those 2 blue beads in the log? They look different.
Are they both Enlightment (100 piety!!!!) or not? Maybe the first one is the blue bead (+1 mp for a kill)?

As The Avatar said, the first is the prayer bead and the second is enlightment.

Avova17 wrote:Also, I see you took Humility at lvl10. How come? Usually one takes it as early as possible. Is that for more efficient exploration (more hp per tile), or what?

It brings +5 base damage and +10 max health. A much better version of Scullpicker. It's one of the best boons in VGT. Other great boons are Stone Form(only if you don't have other method), Stone Fist, Cleansing, Taurog's Armour, Blood Shield, Blood Hunger (only if you won't hit 45%+ resists), Blood Tithe, and Dodging.

The Avatar wrote:Also, I want to see you beat the new Curious VGT choong, now that it can't be Vampire cheesed and has been made slightly more playable. True props if you beat it without Fido, since that has a nerf coming its way.

I... guess it's as hard as rat VGT to me, the non-Vampy curious VGT. I'll try, but I don't expect me to actually beat it.
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Re: Choongmyoung's diary of VGT runs

Postby The Avatar on Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:56 pm

choongmyoung wrote:
Avova17 wrote:Also, I see you took Humility at lvl10. How come? Usually one takes it as early as possible. Is that for more efficient exploration (more hp per tile), or what?

It brings +5 base damage and +10 max health. A much better version of Scullpicker. It's one of the best boons in VGT. Other great boons are Stone Form(only if you don't have other method), Stone Fist, Cleansing, Taurog's Armour, Blood Shield, Blood Hunger (only if you won't hit 45%+ resists), Blood Tithe, and Dodging.


I think the question was more "Why take it specifically at level 10 instead of 2, although I assume the answer is that the bonus XP is irrelevant while decreasing your BURNDAYRAZ damage and regen for a significant period of time is.

choonmyoung wrote:
The Avatar wrote:Also, I want to see you beat the new Curious VGT choong, now that it can't be Vampire cheesed and has been made slightly more playable. True props if you beat it without Fido, since that has a nerf coming its way.

I... guess it's as hard as rat VGT to me, the non-Vampy curious VGT. I'll try, but I don't expect me to actually beat it.


After seeing you step on regular VGT with purist all the time, I'd be shocked if you couldn't. Especially now that the current version requires a ton less scumming.
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Re: Choongmyoung's diary of VGT runs

Postby choongmyoung on Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:44 pm

Note for myself and others: the Curious VGT

1) Forgotten Soul: Bloodless, Ensnare:1, Corrupting Aura:5, Essence Drain 20%
- Just be care that you don't leave mana on discovering them. (4 of them, actually)
- Corrupting Aura could erase your whole piety.

2) Naga Fireweaver: Unstable, Retaliate:Fireball, Physical Resist 25%
- Try to leave a tiny HP for him, and finish it off with first strike or fireball.

3) Freezing Wraith: Undead, Bloodless, Magical Attack, Curse Bearer, Frostbite:10
- Leave a bunch of popcorns and try not to slow the first strike ones.
- Or use RBS/Platemail. Anyway leave many, many popcorns.

4) Beholer: Magical Attack, Riposte 25%, Death-gaze 25%, Mana Burn
- Due to the riposte, 25% of its HP is directly dealt to you. Don't regen-fight if possible.
- Riposte can deathgaze you, so be careful at low HP.
- The only manaburning monster.

5) Undying Sculpor: Spawns, Chaotic (Golem Arbiter: less damage, less hp, No XP, Riposte 25%)
- Bring potions with you, and use them when you need it
- Golem Arbiters are actually good resources as they can cancel curses, or cut a frostbite, or pop a burning stack, and they do leave bloodpools

6) Siabrae: Undead, Magical Attack, Death Protection, Spawn Plants:5, Bloodless
- This is where you want to use the Burn Salve, after the fight
- The level will be completely filled with the corrosive plants anyway, and you'll get like 20+ corrosions
- Use BURNDAYRAZ or a first strike to finish it off

7) Naga Frostblade: Frostbite:10, Magical Resist 25%, Death Protection(5)
- Again, BURNDAYRAZ is useful here
- Use Golem Arbiters or popcorns to cancel the frostbite. EDIT: Corrosive plant doesn't help.

8) Ratling Priest: Corrupting Aura:10, Protective Blessing 10%, Magical Attack, Weakening Blow
- This is where you want to use the Fortitude Tonic, after the fight
- This will definetely blow your entire piety
- WEYTWUT might be useful... or not. Only when they are too crowded?
- Kill the least protected one first.

9) Flint Golem: First Strike, Unstable
- Try to leave a tiny HP for him, and finish it off with a fireball.

10) H at 75% health, Zayyeh: 93/1336
- Nothing special, just regen-fight

11) H at 50% health, Spleen: 75/15, Physical Immune, Magical Immune, Corrosion:1, Corrosive:1
- Use the Long Rant here

12) H at 25% health, The Avatar: 123/1234, Crazed Regeneration
- Maybe it's the timing you use your WHUPAZ, especially you don't have many bloodpools
- Never regen-fight, use the bloodpools here

I guess BURNDAYRAZ+GETINDARE is the best, as there is no poisonous monsters and a lot of monsters have death protection. Or not... I'm not quite sure. And I guess the order of the foes is very important (especially the Undying Sculpor); scum for the luck will be even worse.


Possible approaches:
Human Rogue of Taurog→blabla.
Paladin of GG+PM.
Orc Monk of Binlor→Dracul.
Human Tinker or Wizard
Last edited by choongmyoung on Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Choongmyoung's diary of VGT runs

Postby choongmyoung on Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:08 pm

*Always dies from the Undying Sculptor*
I always have disliked the chaotic trait. It's like gambling, but unlike blink, a single failure costs the entire run. I believe DD does not welcome this microscopic scale luck gamble.

Tried a several Crusader of Taurog→Dracul run. (DS+Armour+BS+Patches resists maxout) Crusader ignores curse (there's like 15 stack of curse waiting for you plus optional 3), and that's good enough.
Corrupting aura is awful under taurog with a glyph kill, but it's awful with every diety.
Frostbite is also super annoying, especially when it comes with 5 death protections, I guess I must have the platemail.
Flint Golem is tricky to regen-fight, Nara Fireweaver is jute nope without sanguine.
Siabrea floor requires two corrosion cleanups without WEYTWUT.
Undying Sculptor... I haven't found a good strategy to beat these guys.

Btw I realized burn-popping Siabrea on the main floor generates plants on the main floor. It's not particularly annoying but I didn't think it would work like this. The Avatar didn't spawn ???s on the main floor, don't know about the Getanadafix (I guess it would work like Siabrea) or the Assassin Gold boss (no way to experiment this).
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Re: Choongmyoung's diary of VGT runs

Postby The Avatar on Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:49 pm

choongmyoung wrote:*Always dies from the Undying Sculptor*
I always have disliked the chaotic trait. It's like gambling, but unlike blink, a single failure costs the entire run. I believe DD does not welcome this microscopic scale luck gamble.


I agree to a certain extent, but there's more to it than that. The Chaotic trait is essentially designed to allow you to take a large risk that whose penalty be significantly mitigated in exchange for a weak monster. Stated simply, by attacking a sculptor, you risk 3 things:

1. Being trapped in a lethal situation
2. Wasting (potentially a large amount of) tiles
3. Build up of Golem Arbiters

Now, to address them one by one:

1. In every map you find them, this shouldn't be problematic, and that is very intentional. If chaotic were in a labyrinth, that would be awful design, yet I'd argue that in a more open dungeon it creates interesting decisions. In Ancient Scrapyard, the map is unlikely to have blockages. In Flooded Foundry, as long as you have a corestone or two packed up then you literally cannot get stuck. In VGT it is unlikely, especially if you are clearing your arbiters and prioritize any Sculptors that block hallways (if any).

2. As should be obvious, the amount of risk you incur here decreases with exploration. This means that front-loaded tile-spending strategies (Binlor piety farming, as a classic example) make them significantly more whackable. But, perhaps more importantly, simply worshipping a God where tiles can be converted to piety allows you to risk this even with less explored and not mind too much.

3. This isn't really a problem except in VGT. Although in VGT it's (presumably) the largest problem. You beat on a sculptor a bit, spawning 1-3 arbiters, get teleported to blackspace then repeat a bit until there's an insurmountable amount of arbiters who cut you off on kills. But what if you pre-explore the entire floor. Sure, it's a cruel penalty to impose, but it will certainly prevent arbiter buildup. That being said, I could still see cramped or wall-filled sections being a problem, so potentially bring some knockback. At the very least it'll help cut down on the corrosion incurred from Siabrae.

At least that's my take on things. Basically, while Chaotic gives you a chance to screw yourself, if you prep for it then it can be fully mitigated.

choongmyoung wrote:Btw I realized burn-popping Siabrea on the main floor generates plants on the main floor. It's not particularly annoying but I didn't think it would work like this. The Avatar didn't spawn ???s on the main floor, don't know about the Getanadafix (I guess it would work like Siabrea) or the Assassin Gold boss (no way to experiment this).


Noted, we'll look into it.
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Re: Choongmyoung's diary of VGT runs

Postby choongmyoung on Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:54 pm

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I had too many blackspaces left (more than 100 I suppose) at the end. I was convinced that I will win anyway, so I skipped sanguine and chose to erode resists. But in the middle of the fight I realized if I had 3 more golds then I could buy the godly Vampiric Blade. So I converted to TT after I build up enough piety, Buy dodging boon to get 10 more golds, and came back to Binlor killing popcorns. It's maybe the first time ever I joined TT mainly for gold.
With the godly CYDSTEPP, dealing with two Wraiths at once to get levelup (and wipe mana burn) was fun.

Also I did a VT Vampy run with DS. I had to find Platemail, but with it VGT VT was such an ease. (Patches gave only +8% resists lol)
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Re: Choongmyoung's diary of VGT runs

Postby AvovA17 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:29 pm

Do you use veto slots for your runs? Do you restart if you do not get a certain item? Info like that would be helpful :)

Otherwise, like others said, it looks like you always beat it on the first try. Nice runs though :)


Also, is VGT beatable without Platemail? I tried VGT+VT several times, and the best I got was the last tower before H.
But I almost never get it in the shops (hey, I have only one veto slot at the moment), and patches gave me almost no resists. One try was hilarious, where on the main floor almost every monster was a zombie, lol. No bloodcows whatsoever.
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