What do you put in your return slots?

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What do you put in your return slots?

Postby Unidentified Tower on Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:56 pm

I just unlocked my second return slot (finally beat Bloodmage Gold!), and I'm not sure what to spend it on. My first return slot I used for Pendant of Mana -- because going from 13 max mana to 15 isn't usually a super important breakpoint, so I ended up feeling it wasn't usually worth the gold cost and inventory space.

There are items I rarely buy, like Troll Heart, Bloody Sigil, and Pendant of Health. But I've only been playing for a couple of months, and I'm worried that by banning out the items that I don't use much, I'll be limiting my ability to learn. Like, a friend pointed out that Bloody Sigil gives a ton of conversion value for very little gold, so I should probably be taking advantage of that more often. And Pendant of Health seems really strong in the earlygame. And if you buy Troll Heart early and convert it later, you're getting a bunch of health at no inventory cost. (I never really took advantage of that because never wanted to convert items I'd spent money on if I could help it, because I wanted to get the gold back at the end of the dungeon.) So maybe vetoing the basic items I don't usually lose will just limit me?

The only item I think I truly never buy is Stone Sigil, but that spawns so rarely already that vetoing it wouldn't do all that much. Maybe I should just start using my return slots on all the basic items (except the really good ones like Fine Sword) until I'm basically getting the Quest Items preparation every game for free?

More experienced players, what do you do with your return slots?
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Re: What do you put in your return slots?

Postby Vemb on Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:48 pm

Mostly I put nothing in them since everything can be useful. Technically I do put something there if I'm preparing for specific difficult scenario, but that happens very rarely. Just recently I was considering using them for the third Triple Quest and decided to play it first to refresh my memories about it (since it had been months since my last attempt)... But since I actually completed the Triple Quest on that attempt, I didn't need to use them at all.

Unidentified Tower wrote:My first return slot I used for Pendant of Mana -- because going from 13 max mana to 15 isn't usually a super important breakpoint, so I ended up feeling it wasn't usually worth the gold cost and inventory space.

I disagree. Going from 13 to 15 in max mana is pretty commonly useful. For example:
2 fireballs + GETINDARE = 15 mana
fireball + WEYTWUT = 14 mana
3 HALPMEH = 15 mana
Not to mention that at 15 max mana each mana potion gives 6 mana. That is very important for every Gnome.
Last edited by Vemb on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What do you put in your return slots?

Postby choongmyoung on Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:01 pm

For now, Hero's Helm / Venom Dagger / Fire Heart / Crystal Ball / Whurrgarbl / Tri-Sword / nothing.

But really, no item is worth banning for every run. Many experienced players to use return slots only for a specific run: i.e. banning attack items for a pure caster run, or banning some exact items for a VGT run.

Speaking of your three items, I usually buy Bloody Sigil because of that reason and I never ban it. I buy Pendant of Health when I'm on early stages and it grants me a big kill, or when I'm worshipping Dracul in the end-game so I can fill tons of % of my health bar. Troll Heart is an auto-buy for halflings and Rogue.

Stone Sigil is also a perfect item for an early game bought, and especially for some pecky gods such as TT or Dracul. It's also one of the more important items for VGT. Actually VGT is really a different game on its own, I usually veto some specific quest items and prep quest items so that I can always get good items such as Soul Orb or Platemail.

Vetoing some specific items for certain cases, like Agnostic's Collar for Vampire and Goatperson, is a viable choice, However I don't find it specifically effective because one mere item ban is not very meaningful.

One another item that people usually ban other than a Ston Sigil is the Venom Sword. This actually is not that bad from it first seems, you might feel it not very effective because it just adds a mere "poisoned: 1 tile" for hits. But if you are regen-fighting (and I almost always regen-fight because I always play VT runs and it's otherwise very hard to kill monsters) then it is adding 2×(your level) on every hit, and it's whopping +40% damage bonus(!). Even if you are not regen-fighting, it's a free healing during a fight. And also CP value is very high.

Btw, when I didn't know buying a Mage Plate immediately puts +5 max mana on lv9 I always veto'd it. (I thought it works like Troll Heart) It happens to be a key item when the random boss just calls for fireballs.

Oh, and about game playstyle: I personally don't like Tri-Sword or Alchemist's Scroll. But that's because I don't like playing a halfling. Here's the list of items I rarely buy: Fire Heart, Hero's Helm, Whurrgarbl, Trisword, Martyr Wraps, Orb of Zot, Alchemist's Scroll and Wicked Guitar. But I don't say these items are weak! It's just my playstyle. And if the Fire Heart were charged to a certain point from the start I probabily bought it frequently.
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Re: What do you put in your return slots?

Postby Unidentified Tower on Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:10 pm

I hadn't thought of those other things you can do at 15 mana, I just saw you couldn't do another fireball and wrote it off. Considering how often I find myself wishing I could fireball-WEYTWUT properly, I probably should have noticed that.

I usually just use Tri-Sword as an overpriced blacksmith Sword that gets a bit better when I'm fighting the boss. i hate using potions anytime I'm not fighting the boss.

I'm surprised at Hero's Helm, that used to be my go-to generic locker item. It's half a Pendant of Mana, half a Pendant of Health, and half a Fine Sword, so isn't it kind of like 150% of an item? Also surprised at Crystal Ball being vetoed, is the idea that if you were playing a class that wanted Crystal Ball you'd have already prepped it from your locker?

I guess Whurrgarbl isn't really that strong, but it's a cool item, I like the number of burn stacks going up. :(
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Re: What do you put in your return slots?

Postby General_Milky on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:54 pm

Nothing in a general sense, but I have used them to make specific challenges earlier. Such as the third triple quest, I didn't want Stone Sigil or Venom Dagger wasting my Quest Items shops. The randomness and dealing with whatever comes up casually is most of the fun in this game, I'd only remove items out if it meant doing a particularly insane challenge I just want to get done.
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Re: What do you put in your return slots?

Postby Spleen on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:00 pm

When I was first playing the game, I had veto'd Bloody Sigil, Stone Sigil, Mage Plate, Spoon, Venom Dagger, Martyr Wraps, Whurrgarbl. Now, nothing, except for the monster classes sometimes. I think that it's a lucid idea to put away the items you don't even have a clue how to leverage (I always thought martyr wraps useless except for monk) and get an understanding of the rest, then re-introduce the things you veto. Bloody Sigil's a free ride to level 3/4, Stone Sigil's a far more efficient Tooki Tribute, Mage Plate's great to get just to cast magic and quaff potions before converting, Spoon's virtually free damage, Venom Dagger's defended already, and I'd say that Whurrgarbl is a more dynamic version of it.

Whurrgarbl cuts monster health regen by a half / third / quarter / etc. making it effective at low levels, especially if you haven't found fireball, and it's power increases with your level due to the burning cap increase. Remember that it makes your sustained attacks not pop the burning -so you can efficiently use attacks and fireballs while regen-fighting and hanging on to all that bonus damage- and deals damage set to burning stacks on hit. So, at level 1 it can make you deal 2 bonus damage per hit, equal to a sword (because % gains are usually negligible then), but at level 10 it can make you deal a huge 20 bonus damage, very effective against fat bosses, or anyone who don't revive a bunch (here's looking at Anoobis and Namtar). While it hardly negates any healing in lategame, it can drastically increase your damage output. You can also pull off a bunch of smooth moves with setting up burning stacks before engaging, between it and fireball.

The other big boon of Whurrgarbl, especially when compared with venom dagger, is that it works on the undead, and zombies are scary. It's also pretty decent conversion fodder.

Martyr Wraps pretty much does the same thing as Whurrgarbl, in my eyes, the distinction being that the bonus damage is set in stone and hoarded instead of cutting health regen early on, so it's much more lategame-skewed.

I don't like Tri-Sword or Alchemist's Scroll or Wicked Guitar that much either, but I do use Fire Heart a good deal (if Keg o'Health is 25 gold for 120% heal, then 20 gold for Fire Heart's way worth it if you find it early)

Indeedily, there are no weak items.
Except Fake Beard, that one sucks.
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Re: What do you put in your return slots?

Postby chandl34 on Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:30 am

- Spoon
- Fine Sword
- Pendant of Health
- Venom Dagger
- Troll Heart
- Dwarven Gauntlets
- Can't afford the last one, but it would probably go to Orb of Zot

I only like Dwarven Gauntlets if they're free. Otherwise, you need to buy them early to get the full effect, but you probably haven't seen all the shops at this point, and paying 35 gold is basically going all-in on them. It's a better idea to wait and see what the shops have, because there are plenty of better situational items. I banned Troll Heart for the same reason.

The other four may be useful in some cases, but keep in mind, having these in your shops reduces the chance of better items showing up. If I need a Soul Orb or some other item to be in a shop, I don't want to risk a Spoon being there instead.

I would keep Bloody Sigil in. It's one of the Rat Monarch's best items, is decent for other regen fighters, and is one of the best conversion items in the game.
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Re: What do you put in your return slots?

Postby chandl34 on Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:46 am

Unidentified Tower wrote:I guess Whurrgarbl isn't really that strong, but it's a cool item, I like the number of burn stacks going up. :(


Whurrgarbl is amazing against high death protection enemies. Knockback + Whurrgarbl = 3 death protections removed per hit. 4, if you're a sorceror. It's also decent for regen fighting.
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Re: What do you put in your return slots?

Postby chandl34 on Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:53 am

Spleen wrote:Martyr Wraps pretty much does the same thing as Whurrgarbl, in my eyes, the distinction being that the bonus damage is set in stone and hoarded instead of cutting health regen early on, so it's much more lategame-skewed

Martyr Wraps is very strong for low damage fighters. In my VGT monk run, without Martyr Wraps, it would've taken me 94 hits to kill Horatio. With Martyr Wraps, it only took 35.
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