Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

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Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby The Avatar on Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:08 am

Alright, everyone, it’s time for round two! Once again, this post is going to be pretty spoiler heavy, so read at your own peril. Of course we recommend experiencing things organically, but sometimes its nice to know what you’re getting. Still, the precise specifics for everything except the classes will remain for everyone to discover, so the spoiler areas will just contain general summaries, names, and the like.

Official Download: http://ddmod.weebly.com/download.html

Accessing New Content
Spoiler: show
It’s pretty similar to the previous release, but not quite identical. The Church will be immediately available for upgrade (if it’s level 3), but the Zeppelin Upgrade that starts the primary questline requires you to beat the very first quest of the Northern EE questline (Dumpster Diving). So if you haven’t played the North at all, you will have to start there, albeit briefly.


New Classes
Once again, this region features two new classes. However, unlike the Bard, the East’s second class is quite a bit harder to get, so I’m hiding him wholesale in a spoiler tag.

Heretic
Spoiler: show
The Heretic is a truly unique class, focused on using Gods in new and interesting ways. In lieu of rewriting how he works, I’ll just post this link (spoilers on his traits, of course): http://www.qcfdesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3531


Class 2
Spoiler: show
Troll

The Troll is the very first EE monster class, and we’re proud of him for it. As the monster type suggests, he’s a regen fighter, but he goes about it pretty differently from everyone else.

Traits
TROLL BRAIN: Whenever you are dealt damage exceeding your health regeneration, shroud a tile
TROLL FEAR: Gain death protection on every 6th tile you explore, all monsters have +10% knockback
TROLL BODY: Resists capped at 35%, -30% attack bonus

As for clarifications, TROLL BRAIN always shrouds the furthest revealed tile (even if that tile is no longer readily accessible to you). TROLL FEAR’s counter only runs when you do not have death protection, and resets to 6 when you gain a death protection through any method (so no preloading a second DP by exploring 5 tiles)


Class Challenges
This time around (and in all future directional regions) there are only three class challenges. Still, since they’re built on the Heretic, they are rather… interesting.

Bronze
Spoiler: show

Heretic Bronze is pretty easy (like all bronze challenges), but is done in Bloodmage Beonze style, introducing you to his traits one at a time. This allows it to feed you the Heretic piecemeal while avoiding overcomplicating the bronze challenge with deity relationships.


Silver
Spoiler: show
Heretic Silver steps up the difficulty quite a bit, by forcing you to actually, you know, play the class. Still, the selection of gods it gives you is fixed and pretty favorable to the situation, so an advanced player shouldn’t have too much trouble beating the boss. Speaking of the boss, he has an unlisted ability (like Evolvia, for example), but it will be pretty obvious and isn’t half as hard to navigate around as Magician Silver’s boss ability. Also, this silver challenge has the nice perk of being the only silver which allows you to prep a locker item. So enjoy that!


Gold
Spoiler: show
Heretic Gold is the hardest class challenge. Not just in this expansion. I mean overall. A VGT-style challenge that tests your proficiency with all 9 gods at once, it demands absolute mastery of the Heretic and clever strategy to boot. You’ll probably walk into it, scout it once, and be surprised by the wide variety of challenge presented. Then you’ll try a few times and overcome that only to run into another wall, and call BS on the whole challenge. But I promise it’s beatable. In fact, apart from runs where your opening is totally screwed (there isn’t really a way to prevent level 7s from occasionally spawning on important subdungeon entrances, but at least you can identify if you need to restart in under a minute), it can be beaten with near 100% consistency. So good luck, don’t give up, and may the gods (not?) be with you.


New Puzzle Pack
Spoiler: show
This time our puzzle pack isn’t designed to make you hate the universe. In fact, it’s the exact opposite. The new pack, Trait Tutoring, is like Agbaar’s Academy for all the new traits. Hopefully it will help you pick up on some of the nuances and unusual interactions!


Dungeons
Whew, welcome to the meat of the expansion. This time around there are a full six dungeons (thanks for the opportunity, VHoS), and hopefully they match difficulty roughly evenly with the Northern Region. Spoilers will give name, difficulty, generic summary, and some quest info.

First Dungeon
Spoiler: show
Deadman’s Pass
NORMAL Difficulty

This dungeon isn’t super special, but it is just a normal dungeon. Instead of trying to do anything crazy or cram new mechanics down your throat, it just gives you a ton of extra crazy resources, and a super-buffed boss (by normal dungeon standards). So build yourself up and have a good time letting all of it loose on your tank of a foe. The first quest here is a straightforward intro to the Heretic, and the second is a fun time playing around the Rat Monarch’s weaknesses.


Second Dungeon
Spoiler: show
Frozen Peak
HARD Difficulty

Frozen peak is strange. It’s cramped, but not in the same way as the Labyrinth. Also, remember frostbite from those Sapphire Golems in the North? It’s everywhere here. Heck, it’s really the primary gimmick of the place, between the boss and the level effect. So make sure you keep around first strikers or 2-shot popcorn to keep yourself defrosted. Also, for those of you who play like me, be careful of exploring too much early. It’s mighty cold up there, after all…. The two concurrent quests here are pretty different. The first is for Crusader and requires you to pick up a set of difficult badges all in one run. The second has a unique quest requirement (like the get 6 badges from the North), but allows you to pick any class.


Third Dungeon
Spoiler: show
Troll Laboratory
VICIOUS Difficulty

This dungeon may feel like it comes out of left field relative to the rest of the expansion, and you’re sort of right. It may be reasonable in lore-terms, but the monster set here is just trolls, trolls, trolls. Some old trolls, some new trolls, and some crazy trolls. Lots of crazy trolls. However, this is probably the least vicious-feeling of the vicious dungeons this time around (it’s the VHoS of the pack). There’s no extra floors, no big surprises, and no hidden bosses. Just one invincible, annoying guy who you need to figure out how to tear apart. Fortunately, there are quite a few paths to victory, so it lends itself to replay more so than the DR+Knockback of VHoS. The one quest here is a challenging vampire romp that forces you to turn the strengths of the dungeon against it.


Fourth Dungeon
Spoiler: show
Frigid Plains
HARD Difficulty


This dungeon is an introduction to the other key players of the Eastern Expansion: the Naga. And boy are they an annoying bunch. Outside of some other upcoming monsters, they might have the worst trait sets of anything in DD. Now remember how, back when you were a new player, Rock Garden was terrifying for having a magic resistant AND physical resistant boss? Well, this is our Rock Garden for veteran players in more ways than one. Also, if you have trouble with the bosses, don’t forget a certain subdungeon that also has a pair of “unkillable” Naga. There are two quests here, and you should recognize them: There’s the purist win and the win with all four classes in your Church.


Fifth Dungeon
Spoiler: show
Phantom Citadel
VICIOUS Difficulty

For those of you who like a monster set that offers a varied challenge, Naga Citadel has your back. The two Naga types introduced in Frigid Plains are rounded out by two more that also really suck in unique ways. Really, there’s no perfect approach here. The boss (or bosses? It’s sort of like Namtar. One boss, but many) here is a more straightforward challenge, putting up obnoxiously high stat line given how tricky leveling up here it. Just know that winning is not as simple as it first appears, and make sure you save blackspace on the first floor if you can. It’ll come in handy. The one quest here is actually pretty darn straightforward. It basically comes down to win it with a Half-Dragon, although if you are careless you might miss the easy badge requirement.


Sixth Dungeon?!
Spoiler: show
?????? ????????

VICIOUS Difficulty

Did you really think I was going to give you spoilers here? You’ll unlock it when you do (even if it isn’t when you expect), and it’ll probably wipe the floor with you quite a few times until you get the hang of its unique style. Because it really is… different. Once you get the hang of it it isn’t necessarily too much harder than your standard EE Vicious (I’d say it falls somewhere between VGT and “regular” EE vicious), although some builds will have a MUCH harder time than others. Oh, and the quest here? Win.


Items
There’s your standard bevy of new items here (especially in new subdungeons, and a few of those aren’t half bad…), but again the primary two come from a quest and a silver challenge. There are vicious items too, but you’ll have to find those yourself.

Item 1
Spoiler: show
Antithiest Collar

Your reward for Heretic Silver. Another bit of church gear that is similar, but different from the Agnostic variety. Really, they make a great pair, although this thing definitely makes a better prep and you can build your whole strategy around it.


Item 2
Spoiler: show
Serpentine Shield

A personal favorite of mine. It is to shield as fine sword is to sword, except with a bit more flavor and potency. It carries a unique buff that it applies on each level up (and pickup) which can make your life a LOT easier in certain situations, so don’t underestimate it!


New Preparation
Spoiler: show
Once again, one of your buildings will be upgraded with a new prep at the end of one of the questlines. But there’s not much point in spoiling that. The new prep itself is… interesting. It may or may not be worth taking over current options, but it definitely has potential, so check it out if nothing else. It’s also something that will be getting made more interesting in the patch, so look forward to that.


New Badge
Spoiler: show
Yes, there’s a new badge again. And frankly, I think it’s *way* better than the North badge. But I’m not going to tell you anything specific about it, since it is immediately available to unlock. However, I will clarify some intent: This badge isn’t designed to make runs super duper challenging per se (although it does do that in certain cases), but instead to make them more interesting. If you are bored with it, pair it with other badges like Vicious, Purist, etc. for a real challenge. Or attempt it on a vicious dungeon. Furthermore, if anyone gets this badge in VGT I will bow down to you as a superior—heck, probably unstoppable—player.


That just about covers all of it! Happy adventuring, enjoy the discoveries, and post your screenshots!
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby General_Milky on Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:27 pm

Played for a few hours, rolled through everything up to Frigid Plains. It's a nightmare. It's the perfect concoction of dangerous horrible enemies, inconvenient dungeon layout, and the worst dual boss this side of Ornstein and Smough. No preps makes it just that extra bit worse, as with even just a reflex potion and schadenfreude alone I could have won at least two of those tries, but as for now... I think I'm going to scum up some PISSORF strats, because fighting both back to back as separate challenges isn't working.

As for the good feedback, holy crap that new badge is awesome it's fantastic it's amazing and I love you two for including it. The sheer content in the game now is staggering! I almost want to finish all the quests just so I have the excuse to go free-playing and check all of those out.
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby Bwrgarbl on Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:07 am

Okay, I might have found a minor problem. Did some puzzles, tried out heretic and the first dungeon, came back to the map and noticed that Hobbler's Hold had two flags... so I checked what the second one was in case it was a new quest, but it was a PQI, because all progress (Classes and Badges) had been removed from that one dungeon. So I checked my old Extreme Edition backup version and it showed everything done, so I copied that over (because I hadn't really done much) to see if I could try and repeat and find out when the progress gets lost.

Test 1: Progress was there immediately after starting. Bought Zeppelin, still there. Bought Church, still there. Did Unstable pt 1 puzzle, all gone.

Test 2 (to see if it's just the puzzle): Progress there at start and after doing the puzzle. Bought Zeppelin, still there. Bought Church, still there. Did puzzle again, gone.

Test 3: Just upgraded Church before the puzzle, and things were fine. Upgrading the Zeppelin and doing the puzzle again, killed the progress.

Test 4: Just upgrading Zeppelin then doing the puzzle kills the progress. Church confirmed to be not involved.

EDIT: Further testing has shown that all I need to do is buy the Zeppelin, exit the game and restart it, and the progress will be gone.
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby zayyeh on Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:22 am

The progress is gone from Hobbler's Hold only, right? What is the second quest you have there? If it's One Lord to Rule Em All, complete it and tell me if it solves the problem.
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby The Avatar on Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:24 am

Bwrgarbl wrote:EDIT: Further testing has shown that all I need to do is buy the Zeppelin, exit the game and restart it, and the progress will be gone.


Yeah, this is definitely related to the quest (if you haven't done it, I won't spoil quite exactly why it causes the issues) and clearing the quest should solve it.

General_Milky wrote:Played for a few hours, rolled through everything up to Frigid Plains. It's a nightmare. It's the perfect concoction of dangerous horrible enemies, inconvenient dungeon layout, and the worst dual boss this side of Ornstein and Smough. No preps makes it just that extra bit worse, as with even just a reflex potion and schadenfreude alone I could have won at least two of those tries, but as for now... I think I'm going to scum up some PISSORF strats, because fighting both back to back as separate challenges isn't working.


Yeah, that's not quite my least favorite quest of the expansion (in terms of having to beat it), but the dungeon is pure evil. I sort of regret designing it, in that I had to play it over and over for testing and quests and balancing (and the bosses used to have a lot more damage...), but I consider it my Labyrinth of sorts in terms of sheer annoyingness.

General_Milky wrote:As for the good feedback, holy crap that new badge is awesome it's fantastic it's amazing and I love you two for including it. The sheer content in the game now is staggering! I almost want to finish all the quests just so I have the excuse to go free-playing and check all of those out.


Definitely the highlight for me, in that it's basically an excuse to do whatever we thought would be cool (or occasionally whatever we thought would be crazy difficult).
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby choongmyoung on Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:07 pm

Wow, this is way harder than I expected. I just unlocked the Troll Lab, and oh...

And, yeah, really, the new badge is mind-blowing. Great job.
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby General_Milky on Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:56 pm

It IS really hard. I'm pushing through it, but this feels WAY rougher than Extreme North. Right now, my efforts are focused on Heretic Silver and the Phantom Citadel's Half Dragon quest. It's all doable, but it's feeling like I carving through this with my TEETH. I haven't seen past the first boss of the Citadel, and I ALMOST have the Silver nailed after 7 tries of thinking and optimizing my approach. It may not be the best way to beat it, but it's ALMOST working and I feel that if I just play sliiiightly better and just get some slightly better luck with map generation and Quicksilver dodge procs, I could beat it my very next try.

Edit: Turns out I've needed none of that and won even a "bad" run by just realizing
Spoiler: show
Burning edits his resists too, being MAGIC DAMAGE and not typeless like I often assume. Saved me about 18 mana in the long run, which made the difference.
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby General_Milky on Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:27 pm

Another post, this time in rage.

So I finally made headway in Fi Fi Fo Fum 2. I had it all, things were going GREAT, and theeeen...

https://puu.sh/yHQCS/5166ec4d8d.jpg

Crashed upon picking up the item. I have to do it ALL OVER now. Fun. Yaaay.

EDIT: Did it again. Game didn't crash this time, but I died anyway because of the typical "It's a vicious dungeon so it's going to just straight lie to you and take all your resources/throw a curve ball at the last minute."

This... is gonna be a little bit.

MULTIEDIT!!: I couldn't get the crash to happen again, even with the same build and strategy. No idea where to even start with it, but I beat the dungeon finally. Almost got all the content unlocked, just need to unlock the other class and the shield, and I think I've opened access to everything in the update.
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby The Avatar on Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:28 am

Hm, I think that crash might just be your machine being unable to handle the burden of the transformation sequence. Also, I think pt 2 might be harder than pt 3, as 3 is more of a question of planning it properly. Meanwhile Phantom Citadel is just a brutal dungeon. Have you knocked off the extra vicious dungeon? There's a bit of extra content behind that.

It's interesting to see that you think the East is that much harder than the North. It is definitely requires more planning and careful play due to the trickier monster set, but I don't feel like the respective dungeons are that much more challenging once you learn how to play smart with the new effects. (This is excluding Oasis Town v Frigid Plains, as Oasis Town is intentionally not supposed to be too hard).
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby General_Milky on Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:19 am

Frostbite is just brutal, really. Not just it, either, most of the monsters here have the age-old pains too. Curse, corrode, poison, mana burn all on one monster, death gaze 100%'s or curses on the only guaranteed first strikers... and the bosses are no joke, either. Jealous Apprentice and Goat Face were tough, but pretty straightforward to counter. A lot of the East's bosses force you into a harrowing battle of attrition, being quite meaty with a slew of dangerous effects that separate them from your average Super Meat Man. The east is "interesting," AND hard, which is where it sets itself apart. The North was tough in its own right, but for the most part it wasn't too hard to answer it. Everything had a very clear workaround. No blackspace? Then steamroll through levels with high damage and IMAWAL. Bosses get stronger with each monster killed? Focus all in on the bonus EXP, give goblins a try. Two bosses, one a stonewall, the other (several) glass cannons? Prep for one, burn resources making up for the other. Reviving enemies that deny EXP without a ton of extra effort? Make it hard for them to damage you.

The East isn't quite so simple. Frost bite is a huge problem, and dealing with it often means losing half your health and needing to regen... except regening just frostbites you more, making a vicious cycle. Frigid Plains takes the cute gimmick of Yin and Yang, and stretches it into a brutal fight that all but requires a fantastic hybrid build, as regen fighting is utterly ineffective between frostbite, the fact both need to die back to back (therefore they may as well regain a combined total of 20 HP per tile) and the little detail that it's Labyrinth style so blackspace is short anyway. Phantom Citadel features one hell of a beefgate initial boss encouraging the player to level up high just to survive a hit, and likely blow their blackspace in doing so, which you NEED for the last phase. Better hope you got the Zombie Hallway subdungeon and poison! And then there's the boss of the last dungeon (which I just now beat with a bread and butter Paladin Tank) which is... a little scary, to say the least, and seemingly impossible without one hell of a build. I'd need more time to have a solid opinion on it, as I beat it first time I saw it, and don't really have context to how other types of characters would manage.

So yes, I've got the new preparation now, and only really need to go for the Troll Lab quest to have "done everything" as far as content unlocks go. I'll probably have more to say once it's all said and done.
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