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Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby Nurator on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:19 pm

I hadnt have time to play in the last few weeks, so no new things to report on Hereatic Gold...

how is the new content coming along? Do you have any ETA yet? :)
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby shade_of_ox on Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:50 pm

I believe it's currently a "not anytime soon".
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby srid on Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:06 am

A patch with lots of bugfixes and some Curious Vicious Dungeons resigned is coming soon, in one or two weeks, hopefully.
Sadly the South has still quite some work to do, so it's release date is 'not anytime soon' indeed.
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby shade_of_ox on Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:15 am

I've been taking Frozen Crown into a few runs and I think it's a little underwhelming, to be honest. The -2 enemy regen really isn't worth the weak fireballs, let alone the fact that this is your locker slot item.
I've tried it on Monk, Gorgon and Troll, but at the end of the day it feels like a fancier Whurrgarbl - except one of Whurrgarbl's main benefits is that you don't pop your burning stack when using fireballs, and Frozen Crown renders fireballs pretty much worthless. It does make the early game a breeze, but many preps, or just luck do that. At higher levels, the effect is negligible. I think this item could be good, but right now it's probably the worst vicious reward in the game.

The buff I would propose would be as follows.
I think it should buff your fireballs in some way and not make them completely worthless. Why not give fire (ice?) balls a kind of "snowball" effect where hitting the same enemy multiple times in a row with a fireball deals more and more damage (no exploration in between or hitting the enemy normally, the fireballs have to be consecutive actions)? I was thinking 1/level -> 2/level -> 4/level -> 8/level (at max). That way it significantly improves fireball damage for a mana spike, but still gives the same limitation as now where the normal hit-fireball regen fight is ineffective, since you only break even with fireball damage at the 5th fireball.
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby srid on Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:21 pm

I have never used the item. But from what the Avatar once told me the Frozen Crown is pretty decent as long as you don't meet with enemies with high physical resistances.
If you do get enemies with physical resistances, then you need to have at least GG, Byceps or Cursed Cutlass.

In a way, the -2 damage per level on Burndayraz can somewhat be compensated by the burning stacks that gradually builds up , but in any case this item is mostly a Vicious item for Regen fighters, and not a go-to-anything like Dragon Scale. However for those with fast regen and low damage like Troll and Monk, Fido seems like a better prep most of the time too.

I guess you could try playing it with your favourite build, the Paladin of GG, if you haven't already: The burn on attack would mean 1 free piety on every kill, and Halpmeh + resistances makes the Paladin a good Regen fighter. The lower enemy Regen would then help you killing higher level enemies, while GG would give you the required power against Physically Resistant dudes.

Also, Regen reduction from burning is more efficient than poison against enemies with Fast Regen or ensnared, because a boss with fast regen would regenerate 16 per tile instead of 20 thanks to Freezing Crown. So I guess you could try giving it a spin with a Monk or Gorgon in Troll Lab, too. It might not work well if there are physically resistant enemies, though.
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby shade_of_ox on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:59 pm

I guess that's a plus, but I'm not really seeing a point in ever taking this over a Dragon Shield or The One Horn with the Paladin build as that build has problems building resists without PM normally. The extra benefit against fast Regen is interesting, though I can't say that my go-to approach for fighting Trolls is regen-fighting... :|
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby shade_of_ox on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:27 am

By the way, I've been thinking about maybe helping out with the code side of things for this mod. I don't really know Unity at all, but I'm a CS major so I'm guessing I could pick it up reasonably quickly, right? Do you guys want/need my help? From how it sounds, this is a bit too big of a project for one person to complete in a reasonable amount of time. How would I go about getting started?
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby maya on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:51 am

a interesting idea would be to remove the stack limit while having the crown but that probably causes some really weird problems with chemist and doesn't do much anyway because the stack limit is rarely reached in any game unless spiking and even then your not gaining more than having just prepped fireball mage ring because throwing more than 19 fireballs in a row is nigh impossible.

so my second idea is make the regen reduction per level of the burning debuff. this variant is probably more broken, maybe not in the sense of balance (although a wizard abuses the hell out of this variant) but the idea just doesn't work. while thinking about how to buff the item while maintaining it's fundamental core idea of "regen fighting" I thought of many ways to adjust this item but they just generally don't work.

when thinking of this current variant would it be so bad to give it no reduction of dmg per level? with this variant all it's doing is giving +1 dmg per tile you regen in a fight. if regen 4 tiles per hit then fine sword is just better, or even at 6 cursed cutlass is also arguably better because it's affected by bonus damage and allows you to prep attack boosters instead of forcing fireball magnet which is a downside to this item. so even if the dmg per level was removed I don't think this item sees use. the current variant of the item seems more shop item worthy and acts more like a bloody sigil, a small downside in the early stages with a major boon that slowly grows weak and the downside grows larger in time and eventually gets converted due to it not giving a good enough boon later

sorry if this message is kind of all over the place as I was thinking of the item and it's worth even as I wrote this because to me I was finding it hard to conceptualize it's worth because of all the moving parts the game has
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby shade_of_ox on Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:26 am

Regen reduction per level of the debuff would be hilariously overpowered. At level 5 you would already be able to completely stop bosses from regenerating health. Put this on a Warlord or something and the run is automatically won.

I actually kind of like no limit on the burning stacks. It would be very strong for big tanky bosses like SMM that you're going to be regen fighting, and that's already what the item is for - if we had that and then no nerf to BURNDAYRAZ, I think that would actually be a solid item I'd be willing to take for Vicious dungeons, especially fireball-focused builds. Also, it would make Whurrgarbl much more useful of a synergy.
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby srid on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:53 pm

I must say that I like the idea of removing the burning stack limit. In a way, burning stacks are very similar to corrosion stacks, except that they don't stay.
So if you really want to accumulate a lot of burning stacks, perhaps Fido is better anyway as it gives you corrosive strike (+ extra damage).
With Frozen Crown and unlimited stacks, you could grow them faster thanks to Burndayraz, but unlike corrosion you can't go hit someone else in-between or you lose it all. Plus Burndayraz does less damage anyway so you need to accumulate much more stacks than corrosion to get good value out of you Fireballs.
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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