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QCF Design Community • View topic - Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread


Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby The Avatar on Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:34 pm

We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby Nurator on Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:59 pm

COME ON!!!

https://ibb.co/jK3tWL

This was soooooooooo close :D If I would have had a single tile left (or played the last turns differently), he would have gone down.... I start to believe that Heretic is not the right class for the last boss :D

But I learned something! If the enemy has Unholy Aura and you have a Death Protection, First Strike helps even if you dont kill the enemy as first the piety loss triggers in a loss of health and then the enemy strikes. Without first strike, first the enemy strikes, striping your DP and then the piety loss kills you.
I wish I had known that before :D

Argh! Next time...

@Avatar Maybe you can check if my first few steps are correct for the Grandmaster puzzle. There are two different strategies where I dont know which is better. Here is the one I like the most:
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby shade_of_ox on Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:32 pm

It's interesting that you say that specialist builds do better at EE Vicious - I usually prefer them to hybrids, after all. All of my favorite classes are specialists, and I have trouble using classes like Sorcerer very effectively.

The thing is, I already tried FF Curious with a specialist caster and a specialist melee Paladin, with little success with either. The Paladin fell to the Curse Bearing Prototype 3, while the caster didn't have enough health to sustain killing the last parts of Prototype 1, since he was dealing 100 damage per fireball he had to pay the full 55 health for each kill.

As it is, I've tried the Bloodmage run. Again I've made it to Lusory but can't really put a dent in him thanks to his spawns quickly blocking me off (and he spawns twice as much because I'm hitting him with BURNDAYRAZ). This run had about as favorable spawns as I could reasonably ask for - Dracul, Mage Plate and the subdungeon was exploding signpost. I had 23 mana and a big health bar, but I still had to use all my bloodpools on the surface to take down the two bosses despite having 50% Sanguine. I did have to explore rather far to find BURNDAYRAZ, so I ran out of blackspace earlier than I would have liked, but even if I'd found it right away I don't think I could have really done much damage to the Jealous Apprentice.

Looks like this strategy is a bust - I'm going to try a standard Paladin tank again and see if I can improve.


@Nurator :lol: That's really unfortunate!
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby The Avatar on Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:48 am

We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby shade_of_ox on Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:17 am

I hit a wall with Paladin, actually. My new strategy is a Warlord of Mystera with GETINDARE, or EM - to cheaply kill the smaller forms of Prototype 1. I'm relying on ENDISWAL and/or GG so I can either save Corestones for Lusory, or use Cleansing.

This strategy works. I had a won run that I threw away by forgetting to take a Corestone with me to the bottom. :(
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby srid on Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:34 am

@shade_of_ox

I just had a quick look at Curious FF just to see how I would do it if I ever try it (I have an advantage: I can scout dungeons very quickly thanks to my dev super-powers, on the other hand I still have never made any regular run on FF)

The boss pool seems extremely nasty here.
Prototype 3 with his high resist and curse bearer seems very annoying and I don't see any good approach, apart perhaps an Elf Warlord with Cursed Cutlass to try eroding these through time. But a build based on resistances would have a really hard time there, so a Paladin would have difficulties.
Even Binlor can't help much there since there are so few walls, and EM is way too risky too given the layout...

On the other hand, Prototype 1 seems annoying as hell too. His super high magical attack seems, again, very bad for a resistance-base build. I would be tempted by a Berserker, but I don't think his 50% MR would be enough to compensate for the spellcasting loss. If only the Orb of Lusory was lockerable...

Finally the Jealous Apprentice seems extremely painful too, high PR again, which makes you want to fireball him, but then he spawns golems twice as fast...
I noticed that the golems aren't bloodless, so maybe getting some lifesteal could help too, but given that some of them are Curse Bearers too, I'm not sure it's a good idea either.

Therefore, the most reasonable approach seems to be using Weytwut...
I know some class that could be very good with Weytwut... did you try it?
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby shade_of_ox on Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:01 am

Cleared Stoneless!
https://prnt.sc/l6ywn4

This time, I didn't throw away the run.
Notes on the run:

This run was very difficult! I think the last time I put so much effort into a run was VGT Rat. Even Heretic Gold and Curious VGT were easier for me.

The bosses in this dungeon are really, REALLY nasty. Leveling is easy, navigation is possible. Of the two bosses, one presents a high stat bar (you can't regen fight Prototype 3) and the other requires a lot of blackspace, and also a method of overcoming Unstable. Lusory himself is a joke, but only if you have an appropriate plan to deal magic damage without BURNDAYRAZ. I think maybe a Half-Dragon would do well here, it's the next thing I was considering.

@Srid - i actually didn't consider WEYTWUT. I think I would have had a much easier time if I did - a Jehora -> GG Priest or Sorcerer could beat this, I think. I don't think Life Steal is worth it, because without DR or resistances it's not really that helpful. The -10 damage doesn't offset the high damage bosses enough, and you can't really regen fight a boss with curses and Frostbite.

WEYTWUT actually is a decent counter to Prototype 1, as well. When I thought about using it before, I thought that since Lusory is Chaotic, slowing him doesn't matter... but you want to use it on the golems, not him. On the other hand, if you get unlucky with Chaotic he might put you somewhere you can't get out of.

Also, technically the Orb of Lusory IS lockerable... just the 10% magic resist one that spawns an illusion when consumed...
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby srid on Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:40 am

Of course I didn't mean THAT Orb of Lusory ;-)
Elven boots would be better than it.

Anyway, my suggestion with WEYTWUT was more directly hinting at the Magician, in fact.
I don't see how Lusory can screw you with chaotic since you just have to TP next to him to continue hitting him. Plus, if you convert a glyph you can:
- Remove curse bearer from Prototype 3
- Get an heavy fireball on Lusory
- Regain 50% mana with Mystera

Anyway if you aren't bored with this run, I'd like to know if such strategy could work.
Of course I would totally understand if you say that you've had enough FF for now :-)
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby shade_of_ox on Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:53 am

I considered Magician. I don't think he has enough power - even without Curse Bearer, Prototype 3 takes a real beating, and while the WEYTWUT is useful against Prototype 1, it doesn't make up for his total lack of combat sustainability. I simply don't think he has enough resources to clear the top floor. I don't like staying with Mystera until the end because of the huge amount of piety loss (the two best early leveling targets here are Sapphire Golems and Arcane Golems, both of which are magic attackers). If you join her late, you won't have enough piety for both Mystic Balance and Refreshment, though...

I'll play around with it a little. Just scouted out Curious Lekon's Table a bit, and it looks really annoying - my original strategy (Dracul with Life Steal) fails because of all the bloodless enemies. I think maybe the Heretic could do well here, with the extra piety from the goats.
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Re: Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

Postby The Avatar on Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:40 am

We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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