Extreme East Spoiler and Discussion Thread

[General_Milky]

Posting here to share a secret/thought.

Fido is an awesome, awesome item and if anyone's playing and not really looking at it, do it. +1 base damage per level adds up to some monstrously high damage, corrosive strike is good depending on class/enemy, and the utility of getting a DP/bycepps effect as a last-ditch all adds up to an amazing item whose downside is WELL compensated for. It's Badge of Honor, Martyr Wraps, and the damage version of Troll Heart all in one unassuming package.

Monks in particular love this thing, but rogues can also get up to 150+ damage default with attack booster prep and non-damage race (dwarf. The BEST Rogue)

[maya]

spoilers but doubt people care

wait the item had 1 base dmg per level? I simply thought it gave 1 base damage and was wondering how the item would ever be that useful (also never thought the answer would have been rouge but base per level is really good for him even on an orc rouge build to keep the one shot dream alive for longer). did you ever try an orc crusader? I wonder how high you can put his damage output at from only 1 blow, this best I ever got was 520 (sadly boss was frank so I didn't 1 shot him).

also speaking of this is it intentional for the boss in troll laboratory to not have skull and bones around him anymore? I'm curious because it now almost forces you to proc his essence drain at random rather than tactically proc the essence drain so he receives no extra damage. I'm guessing this might be a side effect of the bug fixes done there (press f for slayer wand only being useful at dragon isles, and the bosses no longer being turned to stone from imawall).

also also I gave a look at the altered curious dungeons and I say interesting though why does the blue meat not get affected by meat decay even though corroded sponge boy (super meat man (and his riposte just for double stacking)) and his friend (though I believe this means fairly insignificant) does. I have not been looking to far into the curious versions of extreme edition dungeons because my progress got reset for unfortunate reasons (nothing to do with the game but rather my computer) but I have checked the normal levels and everfrost peak. sad to see that everfrost peak did not simply set every creature to have frostbite 1, the difficulty most likely being the problem with why it was not done or rat monarch cydstepp being only solution (which is still possible with both immunities but now unrealistic). I will soon crawl my way back to phantom citadel and let my dragon ravage it with plants (or crash my game trying) so that I can check out the other curios dungeons.

quick question: what do people think is good inside the troll laboratory? I am not asking this for an easy way out (as I did beat this prior with a very poorly done warlord run (I think)) I am just wondering what people think does well there and I think the answer is not mages (unless they want to kill both trollensteins's monster (9 less damage per fireball hurts like hell by the way) and the mind (is it me or de he always have curse bearer) they wont be doing anything, even if they do 1000 hp still sits there waiting for them (and from what I remember fireballing super meat man down sucks))

I am also rebuilding the German wall with text. sorry.

[General_Milky]

Funnily enough, Vampire works extremely well in Troll Lab, and a quest will eventually ask you to beat it with this very class. Other than Vampire, I've crushed it pretty easily as Paladin and made a Sorcerer work, Troll Lab is generally easy enough that I think any class could do a reasonably good job there if they knew what bosses to take down.

I almost feel that Frigid Battlefield is a rougher dungeon that Troll Lab is. Frigid Battlefield is damned tough.

[maya]

I regret looking at the curious variant of frigid battlefield. all I have to say is why and how? is it separate links or all linked together? if the latter then I just need to learn how to rouge (or game in general) better because less than 200 hp? if the former than I say interesting but I believe this is unlikely (this is extreme edition after all)

tbh I was expecting the gimmick to be killing enemies together in pairs. this would cause some interesting ideas as you would have to kill a small enemy alongside a larger enemy to claim the exp.

[maya]

(I did have a long variant written up but while I was writing It the server logged me out deleting the comment I was writing so here is the short variant. if any elaborating is needed just tell me and I can.)

frigid battlefield is not very devious or hard let me explain why

leveling: easy. swampsoul dies to magic. kinsman dies to a gust of wind and can help with alleviating frost after a battle (or during if your gorgon or prepped gorgward (but why would you)). forstblade if you want to die. vampire... I mean soul sucker if you have magic resistance or stumbled upon them with no mana left. wraiths if resists are not your thing (bosses don't have high damage so likely story) but still strong with priestesses around. priestesses if regen fighting is not your thing

bosses: north just needs to have dp's taken from him to make him really weak then he push over (but generally always is because many glyphs help kill: best to worst: pisorf, halpmeh, endiwall, bysepess, aphelsick and burndayaz can be used for dp destruction). south is bigger problem with 75% physical + retaliate 32 (dmg) most builds will struggle with this as it takes both major hp reserves (lvl 7 = 9 fireballs *32 = 288 damage or 3*96 bonus if any frostbite is on you still) and mana reserves (lvl 7 = 9 * 6 = 54) to kill him. focus in most cases should be put on south as he is harder of two to manage.

gods: tauorg sucks. gg is good for better leveling (humility) and enabling heavy attack builds (cleansing magic attack for south). mystera alright because of south and low magic populace (only swampsouls worry you but just take the hit once of twice). tikki is just sub par in my eyes (fist strike (kinsman) and heavy peity drain bosses). earthmother good for entanglement and clearance against south but sucks early cause maze + plants no good (and potentially prepped as well). dracul good for late (as he always is) because of bloodpools helping against both and blood curse for extra fireball dmg (lvl 7 = 9 + pop lvl 8 = 9 lvl 9 = 8) plus blood swell if needed. jj is jj, weytwut for maze + repositioning, mana boon for south and chaos avatar for good late game as 1 level up means a lot for south. binlor sub par good for destroying maze and south but nothing else really. pactmaker is meh but that just me

extra: maze means sad time unless exploration tools are used. subdungeons are meh but zombie treasure place give good regen space.

best advice avoid frostblades and focus on south being the harder of the two and you should come out fine. I managed to 1 shot the quest (purist) on sorcerer (good against mitigating south as the passives counter retaliate fireball (gives extra damage and health to survive them) and leveling is real easy for him) with little trouble but may have been luck (found dracul (glowing guardian and earth mother could have done his job though) and battlemage ring early along with endiswall). name a class (other than monk) and I can come up with a startergy

edit: still ended up being quite long surprisingly

[General_Milky]

Oh, I know HOW to beat it, it's just a big pain in the ass. It's one of those dungeons where RNG can really screw you. My reasoning is this:

Labyrinth layout. Miserable. Labyrinth has, for years, been considered one of the hardest vanilla dungeons and a frequent Daily run-killer not only because Rex boxes you in, but just because the layout itself drives you to was immense popcorn, blackspace, can keep resources from you for an obscene amount of time, and it doesn't really allow you to pick your battles. Now, there's a lot of things you can prep and find to mitigate this, but you may not always have access to them. When you don't... you're in for trouble. You may just HAVE to fight a 2+ level higher demon like a Frostblade or Soul Sucker that you can't possibly take a hit from. That's got 50% resistances from priestesses behind it you can't reach yet.

Next up, monster selection is evil. Difficulty can vary WILDLY depending on how many frostblades clutter up the halls. Kinsman are usually easy, but they can unexpectedly bar a hallway as you explore for health and until you find a way to top off, you're NOT getting through. Soul Suckers deal massive damage unless you're lucky when you cover them, and even though swampsouls are the one merciful monster type that are easy to take on, they still cause a ton of problems if they're not the LAST fight of your current level.

Bosses are also no joke. While not as hard as something like Hidden Workshop's bosses, they're still QUITE a resource sink where you need a staggering amount of health to bounce between them wearing both down and losing health from most moves you do. Preparing Memory of the East before the fight proper is a good idea, except for the part where it's not always easy or even practical to do so because of the aforementioned ways the dungeon can throw a half dozen different varieties of curveballs and leave you without sufficient blackspace, popcorn to have a midfight level for both the setup AND the fight, or even access to all the tools you need because a lvl9 freezing wraith is blocking off a fifth of the map and you need that last remaining Kinsman to burn off MotE's frostbite.

In other words, yeah, Frigid Battlefield can be countered and measures can be taken to make specific problem pieces easier, but in a casual, purist environment the place has a ton of tricks to totally ruin your day. Most vicious dungeons aren't quite so cramped and stuffed with a monster selection that work with each other to ruin your day. All EE vicious so far except maybe Lekon's Table are generally open and you have a lot more agency to choose where you go, who you fight, and pick up what you need.

[maya]

the thing is luck can always ruin a run. I once entered an undefeatable den of danger and the only exit was blocked by a level 8 gorgon, I then used a blue scroll to destroy the wall beside him and the ended up running into a level 3 dragon with only bysseps and the hp potion I started with. another time it was a level 5 zombie who barred my path. some runs by the lay of the dungeon are just impossible and some runs luck makes it impossible. I once prepped patches and yendor on a vampire in hex ruins and teleported in to a small pocket at the side of the map where the only exit was a level 8 meat man and I died. luck is always a factor in runs and variance is always there from the bad to the good (once tried to kill myself on rouge ended up dodging 8 times in a row nearly killing the lvl 8) and yes the game can just hand you an unwinnable run but the difficulty should not consider the worst possible outcome. also purist runs are the most uncontrollable runs.

also phantom citadel can go die in hole with all the freaking dragons I have sent there to die.

[maya]

been mucking around with curious hidden workshop and I have to say 111% death gaze is quite amusing. I think Midas needs to take a couple notes and visit there some time because he only managed 101%. 86% was the amount of percentile points I obtained.

also quick question what was the actual change to curious oasis town? I just finished it 2nd attempt purist as orc rouge (why the hell did I get goblin + golem and dragon first try like seriously) and I could not figure it out?

[The Avatar]

In regular Oasis Town the boss gets 1/3 the buff from each form that Curious version gets (regular golem form = 25% magic res, curious version = 75%). At the same time, the curious version cannot repeat forms. Also, the goat on the bottom floor is 1 level higher, which puts you just over leveling (in the original, the level 4 goat leaves you just short of a level up refill). Honestly, it's not a curious designed to be really hard, but instead a slightly more jacked and thus enjoyable version of Oasis Town (it's the version I'd like to have made the original, but Rat Monarch just provide a bit too unreliable).

[maya]

in the troll lab there is a chance for some reason that the sub dungeon does either a) not spawn at all or b) it spawns underneath one of the monsters (I believe more likely the lvl 10 guys (or boss?)). also trollenstein no longer has skull and bones around him is this intentional or not?