Improving my religious skills

All things Desktop Dungeons

Improving my religious skills

Postby AvovA17 on Thu May 24, 2018 2:24 pm

I have used all gods, but I am still confused about some aspects.

1) When do I join JJ and how do I use it? I am not sure where to fit JJ in my juggling of gods.

If I join it early, it is a bit dangerous for a monk. Also, I get Petition, and maybe a shot of Boost Health/Mana, and then I just wait until the boss fight to get Chaos Avatar, but that wastes a lot of piety, cause I hit 100 pretty quickly.
Should I get CA early for a big bonus XP, and switch to another god?

Alternatively, I sometimes switch to JJ in the late game, desecrate another altar(s), and get CA right away.

2) I am still not sure what to do with Taurog. He clutters my inventory,
and reduces max mana, but his boons are worse that Binlor's. Why would I ever use him? Binlor gives me 60% physical resist any time I want it, high MR in the middle to late game, knockback, and Might. Might is +30%.
All of Taurog's gear is +5% * 4 = 20% bonus only, 10% less than Binlor' s Might (assuming I have no slots for Taurog's gear), and Binlor also has 50% knockback. Basically, I only use Taurog if I am a Berserker.

3) I have used GG a lot recently, and he is useful. Humility is nice, Absolution's
are good, but I am not sure how many to take, and they are not that strong, only 4hp, but you lose XP. I have never used Enlightment though, the cost seems just too high to me. It seems like it is only worth it if you went overboard on beads. Otherwise it might be better to spend all that piety on Protections.
AvovA17
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:38 pm

Re: Improving my religious skills

Postby General_Milky on Thu May 24, 2018 5:58 pm

I don't think there's any one answer for any of this, it depends too much on WAY too many situational details like class, playstyle, item selection, dungeon...

For JJ, I basically just do what you do. Join early and save for CA/enjoy health/mana boost in the meantime, or join late for a boss-fight CA. Converting out is nice and easy too, but I wouldn't take CA before doing it unless the new god is rather piety-lite.

Taurog meanwhile is more something you take early and get out of almost asap. Skullpicker is THE best early power boost in the game, primarily because it stacks with the other big base-boosters. Wereward is also good early, but pretty trash later, but the armor equips are very good and definitely worth going for in moderation. Take one or the other, and stack it on top of other sources of resists. Taking one of either and then buying a tower shield/elven boots, converting unneeded spells/slaughtering magic popcorn for piety to then convert to Dracul and take Blood Shield is an immensely powerful play that more or less accomplishes what Body Pact does, but for WAY less piety. It does take an inventory slot and removes a mana, but those are more than made up for by having both high resists AND sanguine in the same go.

Taurog's not the best piety farm around, but he can also be used for that. Join with him early, sit on piety spending little or none of it (skullpicker's nice to pick up while doing this, unless losing the mana point is a major setback in your plans) and then convert into a new god/fuel Pactmaker later on with a 30-50 piety head start.
General_Milky
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 11:25 pm

Re: Improving my religious skills

Postby choongmyoung on Thu May 24, 2018 7:05 pm

JJ: Basically what you do.
1) Join him at lvl1, farm piety with something, hit 45 piety asap (sparkles help), Petition, farm piety to get health boost or just level up, get stat boosts, CA, keep get piety and convert out.
Obviously I never use him with the Monk, his health boost and mana boost doesn't help my regen fight ability at all and CA is not very great as other classes for the Monk. Monk needs only three things: resistance, damage, and poison. Nothing else.
2) Convert to him later and only get CA. Even if you don't have EM/Binlor/MA, when you convert to him your piety will increase super fast due to how his piety gain works, so you can quite easily earn ~30 piety if you have something to do (e.g. kill popcorns).
3) Goatperson only: spirit pact (5CP per convert) and convert your food (only after you get Petition). It's just awesome. Really. This also work with GG.

Taurog:
1) Generally, I only get ~2 boons then convert out. These two are generally chosen among damage, physical resist or magical resist. Buying all of them clogs my inventory too much unless I am certain to specialize to the normal attack (Berserker or something)
2) The second general case is of course when I find the Pactmaker. Body pact.
3) Characters prefer Taurog if they are low level. Think like, "Taurog = base damage" / "Binlor = bonus damage%". Binlor's knockback boon is generally better at higher levels in terms of damage, but it's quite expensive and only works when the map allows to knockback the target. Some characters, like Orc Monk or Gorgon, prefer Binlor very much (but even in that case Taurog's +15% physical resist is awesome)
4) You anyway want to get plenty of piety. Like, VGT.
5) Actually converting his gears is not that bad, it only gives you -10% damage bonus and 60 CP(!). And you already got +5% damage so it's only -5% damage and -1 max mana. It's clear that if you are potion race or goblin it can be critical, but when if you are a human, converting it can still clear your inventory with no panelty.

GG:
1) Enlightment is generally never worth it. Don't take it if you are sure you can get another 50 piety under him after you get it, or you're be in a big trouble. And I think the beads are almost worthless because I never purchase Enlightment, and even if I do, it doesn't make a huge difference. An additional couple of protections is way better.
2) Absolution is good for maybe first ~4 shots, but the above is only worth it when you really want max HP (Rogue or Halfling I guess). Losing XP is not actually a problem for long dungeons, but the inventory clog is.
choongmyoung
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:53 pm

Re: Improving my religious skills

Postby srid on Fri May 25, 2018 9:42 am

This discussion is very interesting, dropping my 2 cents:

JJ: Same as you all. Not my favorite god, but sometimes there is nothing better around, and the potion boost actually are really potent. If you find JJ and Dracul in the same run, it might be great to worship JJ to throw 2 health potions away and convert out to Dracul. He also saved me once or twice with CA, last chance, or just desecrating him and getting lucky.

GG: Was one of the gods I dreaded the most, and now one of those I love the most.
Finding GG early is a huge thing: it's pretty easy to take 3 or 4 absolutions at level 1, which gives you 26 health instead of 10 for your fist kill. Which means you can easily kill two level 2 or even a level 3 at level 1. Which means great XP boost, and then, you can take Humility just before leveling up (you can even take it before the last blow if you need fireballs).
Humility is the best boon of the game by far for me: you get plenty XP bonus cause you're down 1 level, can reach the "level 11", which means +10 HP, +5 base damage, and plenty of piety from GG before switching to next god. Like you I almost never use Enlightment except in rare cases (in VGT while you wait to find your next god and you know you will easily gain 2 more prestige levels which means +50 free piety from GG)
I recommend you to try playing a Rogue of GG or just look at what choongmyoung can do with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVE9adh ... gmyoungLee
It's very strong.
I tend to forget how much he despises poison, lifesteal and potions, though.


Taurog: to answer your question why use him instead of Binlor, the most obvious answers for me are:
- Because Binlor is not there this time
- Because there is not enough walls in the dungeon (Ick Swamp)
- Because you aim for the Warmonger Badge
- Because why not both?

With Taurog, it's very easy to convert in, convert the glyphs you don't want, grab one or two items, kill a bunch of magical enemies, convert out. You end up with +15% resistances, or +5 base damage that you can stack with what you get from the other gods and items in the dungeon. It's really strong.
You guessed it, unstoppable fury is almost never useful, but can be huge in the right circumstances.
Also, remember that you can still buy his boons without picking up his items. It might be a good strategy in runs where some things of your inventory can be easily converted near the end (in VGT, or if you have troll heart, IMAWAL or WONAFYT, items that are useless in the endgame)

The paladin is obviously a very good class to learn to love each god in monotheist runs, but remember that some gods greatest strengths lies in what they can bring to others. For instances EM makes the perfect desecration (I'm not saying it's her greatest strength, but 30 piety and 3 indulgences for 5 corrosion that can be removed instantly with burn salve, it's huge). I tend to forget capitalizing on indulgences, but it is huge too (it allows you to drink 3 potions under GG or dracul without piety loss!!!)

Last thought: the Goatperson is a very good god to see some interesting god shenanigans.
I learned a lot watching these two runs from chmoogmyoung (thanks a lot to you BTW, I'm a fan!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vzlp3W ... gmyoungLee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkrcUzW ... gmyoungLee
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
User avatar
srid
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:46 pm

Re: Improving my religious skills

Postby AvovA17 on Fri May 25, 2018 12:02 pm

Thanks guys.

I will try to use Taurog as a piety farm, let's see how it works. I love precasting GETINDARE though, to increase my chances of a free hit.

I did try Spirit Pact playing goat before. It was great.

Indeed, it is a very good idea to get several +20hp from JJ before switching to Dracul.

I will watch the videos.

By the way, are there any videos online that show that crazy PISORF play mentioned on the forum several times?
When you reveal the whole map at lvl1, then PISORF everybody into a big pile in the center of the map.
Tinker did not make any videos, and the ones from "Luka Kordić" have been deleted from youtube.
It would be hilarious to watch those.
AvovA17
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:38 pm

Re: Improving my religious skills

Postby Vemb on Fri May 25, 2018 1:03 pm

JJ:
In Dailies clearly my favourite altar to prepare. Health/Mana Boosts are huge advantage, I regularly take at least 3 boosts at level 1. The actual most important reason to prepare JJ is the free WEYTWUT glyph since it helps with leveling, preparing popcorn and unclogging the map. Admittedly Monks don't work that well with JJ and use him early mostly when WEYTWUT glyph is needed.

Getting Petition quickly is important and good to remember that you can usually freely desecrate Binlor and sometimes Earthmother (easily fixed with Burn Salve, easy enough to live with for many characters anyway) or Dracul (at first level before finding any extra health the -9 max health can be easily worth it).

I basically never take CA early. It is so useful as a extra level up during boss fight or to maximize XP gained stat for Dailies.

Taurog:
Usually to get Skullpicker (that +5 base damage is huge) and maybe one of the resistance items. In some scenarios chaining Unstoppable Fury is your best option to deal with a boss. I usually don't like Taurog with
Berserkers since he cripples their already bad casting ability too much.

GG:
Humility is very good. I usually take 3-5 Absolutions at level 1 unless converting from JJ. I usually use some Protections and convert out to use my potions.

I don't normally take Enlightenment unless I'm drowning in piety (for example convert Binlor -> GG and desecrate Binlor to have easy 80 piety at level 1) or playing Paladin. I guess I mostly take Enlightenment to maximize XP for Dailies.

Cleansing is sometimes extremely useful. It is the single best reason to prepare GG for Warmonger runs.

AvovA17 wrote:By the way, are there any videos online that show that crazy PISORF play mentioned on the forum several times?
When you reveal the whole map at lvl1, then PISORF everybody into a big pile in the center of the map.

I don't really know if somebody actually does that, but when I do anything similar I simply determine my killchain and PISSORF or WEYTWUT needed (usually 5-7) enemies together. Sorry but I don't have any videos of doing that.
Vemb
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:46 pm

Re: Improving my religious skills

Postby choongmyoung on Sat May 26, 2018 7:47 am

AvovA17 wrote:By the way, are there any videos online that show that crazy PISORF play mentioned on the forum several times?

Here you go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc-kgZNt520
This is using JJ, but MA works better with Refreshment. Shifting Passages is chosen because I wanted to point out that PISORF can ignore lots of traits, for example, blink.
Punchomancer strategy basically works on any dungeons for any class with proper preparations. Demonic Library is where the punchomancer truely shines, because you will see how you can ignore their annoying traits or effectively distribute your damage on five mini-bosses.

srid wrote:I learned a lot watching these two runs from chmoogmyoung (thanks a lot to you BTW, I'm a fan!)

Thanks a lot! :mrgreen:
choongmyoung
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:53 pm

Re: Improving my religious skills

Postby srid on Sun May 27, 2018 1:54 pm

choongmyoung wrote:Here you go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc-kgZNt520


That's... very impressive...

@AvoA17:
Indeed, pisorf can be very strong and ignore almost all traits, including physical resistances, of the second enemy.

I think I remember I did Naga City as an Elf Wizard of Mystera, and pisorfed everyone to death
because I calculated that I had a better damage per mana output.
Super Meat Man had enough HP to kill the Tower of Goo and another one in a row.

Also, if you play the EE, I did a run of Curious Troll Lab with a Troll with prepped Martyr Wraps and Binlor,
and used the Boss as a cueball to kill every other monster in the room. It's was very long and tedious but extremely potent.
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
User avatar
srid
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:46 pm

Re: Improving my religious skills

Postby AvovA17 on Sun May 27, 2018 4:28 pm

srid wrote:Indeed, pisorf can be very strong and ignore almost all traits, including physical resistances, of the second enemy.

I think I remember I did Naga City as an Elf Wizard of Mystera, and pisorfed everyone to death
because I calculated that I had a better damage per mana output.


Yep, I did it with a Wizard, Half-Dragon, and a Warlord so far.
All with Binlor's knockback, and heavy pisorf.
AvovA17
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:38 pm


Return to Desktop Dungeons

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Spleen and 8 guests