any advice for Goatperson?

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any advice for Goatperson?

Postby shade_of_ox on Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:38 pm

Hi, long time lurker but first time poster.
I'm a little late to this game but I've been playing a good amount of it - I've rainbowed all dungeons except for the Vicious ones, where I have yet to clear them with Goatperson.
I like to think I'm a decently skilled player, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to use this class correctly. I understand that it's meant to be a challenge class, but it seems like the odds are just stacked too high against him.

My current strat with him is:
Preps:
- yendor since his early game is terrible
- extra glyphs since that way I can convert a WONAFYT or something without wasting a refill, also better chances of finding good glyphs that he needs
- some kind of safety god, EM or Binlor so I can (hopefully) drink potions for the boss fight
- fortitude, burn salve, WHUPAZ and Reflexes
- slayer wand or perseverance badge
- compression seal
- smuggler den

Pop yendor, kill lots of popcorn and maybe a couple of higher level enemies, then go after the boss and hope I have enough refills to kill him (at like level 6 or 7).

This strat worked OK for hard dungeons (and Namtar, somehow) but for the other Vicious dungeons I can't really even come close to winning - the monsters are too hard, I can't make any progress, and I tend to just starve to death before I can even fight any of the bosses.

Does anyone know of a way to play this character effectively? The only other thing I really know about him is converting food for GG piety and/or spirit pact for almost infinite refills, but I've never been able to actually pull that off.
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Re: any advice for Goatperson?

Postby choongmyoung on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:17 am

As the class trait says about itself, Goatperson is a luck based class and there's no reliable strategy on it. My standard prep is largely the same with you, but I prefer
* Extra attack boosters over Extra glyphs - I just use one refill to get a big kill. Attack (or other boosters) is better on bursting out of damage on every fight. It's just my playstyle, I never prep more/less glyphs, nor fireball magnet. If I can pre-calculate the bosses' damage, extra health boosters is a great option if it can bring an another hit per refill.
* Translocation seal over Compression seal - Inventory management isn't a big problem, and Translocation seal sometimes make a big difference (such as a platemail)
* Black Market over a Smuggler's den - With yendor I don't see any advantage of a smuggler's den. The extra blackspace consumes extra foods.

Goatperson is hard, yes, but except VGT (can't predict the god, and his damage is terrible compared to humans) it wasn't too bad for me. The playstyle depends on gods, but no-one's really bad for the goatperson. Goatperson should rely on items and boons to gear himself up, and to buy boons you need piety. Always try to farm as much piety as you can.

This is my personal opinion on the dieties.

The Great
* TT - easy to farm piety with many popcorns that Yendor gives. And learning is the best boon for Goatperson.
* JJ - bigger bars = bigger refills. And he can give you a very high piety. CA is the last option if you don't find PM.
* Dracul - Blood curse isn't that bad with Yendor (you don't really need any big kills). All boons are just great, but be aware of EM and GG if there is one.
* Taurog - kill magic and undead (if there's Dracul) popcorns and boom! Buy 1-2 gears.
The Good
* GG - he is generous with piety given that you have spare foods. Boons depend on the situation.
* EM - nothing to do if you don't have IMAWAL. At least plantation is usable if you don't find Dracul, and a single global slow can bring a large amount of XP, at least.
* MA - additional 1-2 max mana is good. Nothing to buy other than that. At least she is safe diety unless there's only magic popcorns left.
The Ignorance
* Binlor - if you don't alreay have ENDISWAL or PISORF, you have nothing to do with him. Buying one is too expensive and you can't farm piety because you'll starve. And there's upcoming doom of -10 piety panelty. If you see Binlor, think about the resists, and if you have resists try to have 10 piety at all times.
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Re: any advice for Goatperson?

Postby shade_of_ox on Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:59 am

choongmyoung wrote:* Binlor - if you don't alreay have ENDISWAL or PISORF, you have nothing to do with him. Buying one is too expensive and you can't farm piety because you'll starve. And there's upcoming doom of -10 piety panelty. If you see Binlor, think about the resists, and if you have resists try to have 10 piety at all times.

hmmm... could prepping a Bear Mace relieve some of the pressure Binlor puts on your game? On the other hand, you'll be pushing enemies into blackspace and wasting food...
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Re: any advice for Goatperson?

Postby srid on Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:55 am

First of all, welcome to the forum and congratulation for rainbowing all Normal and Hard dungeons,
the hardest part is still ahead of you but you certainly did the longest part already.

I did rainbow VGT and Naga City but none of the normal and hards, and the road ahead seems very long...


choongmyoung is too modest to suggest this, but you will learn a lot by watching theses, I don't think I could have done it without them :

VGT Goatperson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vzlp3Wq3BY
Naga City Goatperson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkrcUzWt52c

I also wrote a generic guide on VGT there, it might help too.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3538&start=160

VGT Goatperson took me some time, but mostly because it was my 5th or 6th VGT run, once you learn the dungeon by heart it is much easier to run it. My most frustrating run was actually Purist Rogue, I didn't expect it to be that hard...
Rat Monarch is pretty bad too, and is the one requiring the most expensive scumming.
All other runs are 'easy' in comparison once you know the dungeon perfectly and give your best.

My first serious VGT Goatperson attempt was screwed by TT who was my last god against Horatio, any other god would have do (maybe not GG, because of bloodpools).

Despite his downsides, the GoatPerson has 2 big advantages: easy refills spikes and free god switching.

for VGT:
GG and JJ are awesome for piety farming,
- GG boons are not super useful, aside from removing poison/mana-burn, and of course Humility which is a must,
- JJ boons are really good, but you want to take Petition first...
- Taurog gives you cheap powerful boons (+15% resist) and good piety,
- MA is meh (just get +1 mana for 5),
- EM is meh and dangerous
- When you get Binlor, don't forget about the free 30 piety with the Wall Crunchers
- Dracul is a must have, but risky with EM and GG, get the resists first, and then Sanguine
- PM is good with Body Pact or Warrior Pact, Consensus can help too
- TT is good to get easy piety, but he's a run-killer if you have it when you reach Horatio, I would advise to take dodging only, learning is not that useful there

for Naga City, choongmyoung's strategy works well, I would only recommend to unlock MA once you reach the Arena.
If you're lucky and find Weytwut or Apheelsick early, you can farm lots of piety with JJ on the main floor, enough to get petition, +6 mana, +40 health and a big piety bag when you enter the arena. Try to kill all the enemie, Burndayraz is key here.
By unlocking Mystera, you will convert to her on next level up, Mystic Balance will help a lot especially with the 20 mana pool that you'll get. And of course, get Spirit Pact from PM. With the amount of fireball that you will spend, you should get enough piety to fuel it. And don't take the Flames boon, or the final boss will tear you appart!!!!

I did 2 or 3 tries on this strategy before it work. My successful run was lucky, I got the popcorn secret sub and the Crystal Ball. The arena was relatively easy with that.

On a more general notes, I agree with choongmyoung on preps:

Attack boosters and perseverance badge give you +30% attack (permanent Byceps!!!) for one small slot. Think about the items that gives you something like this: only the Dwarven Gloves give you +20%, and they cost 19 gold more than Troll Heart...

Smuggler's den does't help much for a Goatperson, you don't really want to explore more blackspace.
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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Re: any advice for Goatperson?

Postby choongmyoung on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:26 pm

shade_of_ox wrote:
choongmyoung wrote:* Binlor - if you don't alreay have ENDISWAL or PISORF, you have nothing to do with him. Buying one is too expensive and you can't farm piety because you'll starve. And there's upcoming doom of -10 piety panelty. If you see Binlor, think about the resists, and if you have resists try to have 10 piety at all times.

hmmm... could prepping a Bear Mace relieve some of the pressure Binlor puts on your game? On the other hand, you'll be pushing enemies into blackspace and wasting food...

That would work fine I guess, and the monsters den is hilarious for the Goatperson. But unless you prep Binlor I think that's kinda major drawback, so I think it's a playstyle difference and not one prep being strictly better.

Oh, and on VGT I recommend the Compression seal. Translocation is for other dungeons.

srid wrote:My first serious VGT Goatperson attempt was screwed by TT who was my last god against Horatio, any other god would have do (maybe not GG, because of bloodpools).

No no no, you can first get all the refills and then drink bloodpools with tanking the meaningless punishment on the empty inventory. I'd mark it as the kinda only exception of "GG punishment ends your run" rule.
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Re: any advice for Goatperson?

Postby Bwrgarbl on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:53 pm

shade_of_ox wrote:My current strat with him is:
Preps:
- yendor since his early game is terrible
- extra glyphs since that way I can convert a WONAFYT or something without wasting a refill, also better chances of finding good glyphs that he needs
- some kind of safety god, EM or Binlor so I can (hopefully) drink potions for the boss fight
- fortitude, burn salve, WHUPAZ and Reflexes
- slayer wand or perseverance badge
- compression seal
- smuggler den

Pop yendor, kill lots of popcorn and maybe a couple of higher level enemies, then go after the boss and hope I have enough refills to kill him (at like level 6 or 7).

This strat worked OK for hard dungeons (and Namtar, somehow) but for the other Vicious dungeons I can't really even come close to winning - the monsters are too hard, I can't make any progress, and I tend to just starve to death before I can even fight any of the bosses.


The problem seems to be (at least partially) that you're wasting preps on things that give you convenience but not power. And that's making you stall out on vicious dungeons, because you can't afford a lot of leeway.

So don't go prepping a god to have a safety god for using potions. Only prep a god that's going to directly help you, and plan to use that to be strong enough to choose your level for key fights. GG is a good prep... yes, no potions, but the penalty is meaningless really to a goat, because you'll never get a lot of level up piety from him anyways. Plus, humility is really nice for vicious runs.

Fortitude and burn salve are only really necessary if you have a reason to expect a lot of weakening or corrosion. The regular potions will get rid of poison or mana burn too, and give you power.

As others have said, Smuggler Den is worthless for you. If you're using Yendor, you don't need to find the stuff in there immediately, so it's just giving you more to spend food on. Take the money... money gets you items, which are at the very least convertable and can get you an additional set of bars.

Also, don't pop Yendor immediately when you take it. Explore first... Balanced Dagger, WONAFYT, and Good Glenrick might be around. You can't save it for a double catapult, but you still shouldn't waste it if the opening turns out to be easy. It can be useful for switching gods for a boss fight. Another option is to not prep it and take something else that can more directly help you and hope to scum into a good start. Vicious dungeons tend to push things into certain powerful strategies... knockback and heavy resistance stacking are big ones, and the Dragon Shield can take a lot of the edge off the damage increase.

And as stated... take the translocation scroll. It can get you into the secret subdungeon (Good Glenrick, money, popcorn, a mace you can pick up late when it's not so much of a problem (plus CP and 10% damage)... all are good for a goat). It also gives a key factor of mobility... which is not so important outside a daily where you can just accept that a position is bad and restart at the cost of some gold.

Which is also why the Slayer Wand isn't great here... in a goat daily, always take it if offered (unless it's up against Yendor), but outside of that, take one of the options that gets you damage. The RBS and Mace have additional problems with goat, so the badge is the normally the best choice.
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Re: any advice for Goatperson?

Postby srid on Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:10 pm

Bwrgarbl wrote:And as stated... take the translocation scroll. It can get you into the secret subdungeon


I guess you meant the Transmutation Seal then, not Translocation Seal.

It's true that it can get you the secret sub, along with 15 gold. So its probably a matter of preference.
I prefer the Translocation Seal, though, when you're lucky enough to find the Dwarven Gloves in your first shop...

Compression seal is also recommended for Naga City, since prepping JJ costs you one inventory slot.

On a completely FTW side note, did you know that there is an actual goat farm in a place called Naga City?
https://www.facebook.com/nagacitygoatfarm/
Isn't that fun???!!!

I keep finding it when I type "Naga City Goat Person" in Google, while "Naga City GoatPerson" gives me the right results...
We made an expansion and it is awesome. Really, you should check it out, especially if you're looking for some extra challenge.

Download over at ddmod.weebly.com!
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Re: any advice for Goatperson?

Postby shade_of_ox on Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:44 am

srid wrote:I did rainbow VGT and Naga City but none of the normal and hards, and the road ahead seems very long...

I haven't really started on VGT (aside from the free clear with Vampire and Infinimuter shenanigans) and have the other Vicious dungeons gilded. Goat is really all that's getting in the way there.

Rainbowing the normals and hards didn't actually take me all that long. It was a bit tedious but if you want to make it more interesting you can always just add VT to whatever class you're trying to clear it with. :lol:
srid wrote:choongmyoung is too modest to suggest this, but you will learn a lot by watching theses, I don't think I could have done it without them :

VGT Goatperson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vzlp3Wq3BY
Naga City Goatperson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkrcUzWt52c

I already know about his channel and watch him, but I haven't seen these. I'll take a look.
srid wrote:I also wrote a generic guide on VGT there, it might help too.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3538&start=160

That'll probably prove useful for when I get around to trying to rainbow VGT.
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