Weird facts about mechanics

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Re: Weird facts about mechanics

Postby shade_of_ox on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:53 pm

It's been pretty much confirmed that casting IMAWAL on an empty tile just costs 3 mana rather than refunding 2. That's why Mystic Balance ruins it, and why I think the Bag o' Tricks interaction is inconsistent.
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Re: Weird facts about mechanics

Postby dislekcia on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:14 pm

srid wrote:And here's another weird fact about IMAWAL:

Remember that despite what the glyph description says, you don't really spend 5 mana and get a 2 mana refill if you casted it on an empty tile, but instead, the game checks for 5 mana and then, if you cast it on an empty tile, you only spend 3?

Until today, I thought that it didn't have any meaningful impact on the gameplay, but in fact it does.
When you worship MA, she will only reward you with 1.5 piety if you cast IMAWAL on an empty tile, and not 2.5.
It kinda saddens me as it would have been a cool way to farm piety with MA (the most efficient way by far, actually).

Anyway, I'm not sure if this fall's in the bug or the feature category, but one could argue that since the refill is immediate she don't consider that you really spent 5 mana. On the other hand, she does give you piety when you cast a spell and get a refill from Dragon Soul...


Yeah, that was on purpose. We didn't want you getting "extra" piety on a halfcast. In fact, we tried to make it work so that you could cast it if you only had 3 mana, but that resulted in inconsistent behavior: If you clicked IMAWAL at 3 mana and then tried to cast on an enemy, should we cancel the whole attempted cast? We couldn't have the game do nothing, because then we'd get endless bug reports about IMAWAL being broken. We could have allowed it via the right-click or radial menus, but then we'd have different behavior for different use patterns and that's never a good idea...

In the end the current system made the most sense because we could cover all the different types of cast and the weird edge-case application of the spell was the strange pattern people had to learn. I think these days I'd have left that out completely or just made it cost the full 5 mana but no other bonuses.
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Re: Weird facts about mechanics

Postby shade_of_ox on Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:41 am

dislekcia wrote:Yeah, that was on purpose. We didn't want you getting "extra" piety on a halfcast. In fact, we tried to make it work so that you could cast it if you only had 3 mana, but that resulted in inconsistent behavior: If you clicked IMAWAL at 3 mana and then tried to cast on an enemy, should we cancel the whole attempted cast? We couldn't have the game do nothing, because then we'd get endless bug reports about IMAWAL being broken. We could have allowed it via the right-click or radial menus, but then we'd have different behavior for different use patterns and that's never a good idea...

In the end the current system made the most sense because we could cover all the different types of cast and the weird edge-case application of the spell was the strange pattern people had to learn. I think these days I'd have left that out completely or just made it cost the full 5 mana but no other bonuses.

Did you ever consider making a "not enough mana" indicator when you try to cast a glyph and don't have enough mana? I think that would have allowed you to implement that mechanic the way you wanted to.
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Re: Weird facts about mechanics

Postby dislekcia on Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:47 am

We did, but that wouldn't have solved the problem: We'd have to have added two different cast modes to IMAWAL so that you could cast it at 3 mana but then only use it on open spaces. With no way to show that to the player, we decided against it... I remember this change being pretty late in the dev cycle, after we'd already "frozen" the game balance, so adding new UI states wasn't going to happen.
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Re: Weird facts about mechanics

Postby srid on Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:11 pm

And here is another one:

23? (I lost count)
When you prep Glyph Magnet with the Wizard, you don't get a second BURNDAYRAZ but instead one of the other dungeon glyphs is directly added to your inventory.
Also the Wizard's BURNDAYRAZ counts as a free glyph, so you get 6 glyph per dungeon in total (unless you take the more glyph/less glyph prep of course)
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Re: Weird facts about mechanics

Postby Vemb on Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:36 pm

srid wrote:When you prep Glyph Magnet with the Wizard, you don't get a second BURNDAYRAZ but instead one of the other dungeon glyphs is directly added to your inventory.


Flame Magnet
"Grabs a Fireball glyph from the dungeon layout and puts it in the player's starting inventory. If such a glyph doesn't exist, this enchantment will pick a random glyph instead."

I wouldn't call it a "weird fact" when it works like it is described.
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Re: Weird facts about mechanics

Postby shade_of_ox on Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:58 am

Vemb wrote:
srid wrote:When you prep Glyph Magnet with the Wizard, you don't get a second BURNDAYRAZ but instead one of the other dungeon glyphs is directly added to your inventory.


Flame Magnet
"Grabs a Fireball glyph from the dungeon layout and puts it in the player's starting inventory. If such a glyph doesn't exist, this enchantment will pick a random glyph instead."

I wouldn't call it a "weird fact" when it works like it is described.

Eh, half of these "weird facts" are just obscure gameplay mechanics that aren't very obvious, even if they are documented. Like for instance, the fact that Thief with More Glyphs prepped gets +3 glyphs instead of +2.
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Re: Weird facts about mechanics

Postby Vemb on Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:00 am

shade_of_ox wrote:Eh, half of these "weird facts" are just obscure gameplay mechanics that aren't very obvious, even if they are documented. Like for instance, the fact that Thief with More Glyphs prepped gets +3 glyphs instead of +2.


I disagree. Most of these are not documented. That More Glyphs interaction with Thief is absolutely not documented, even if it is fairly reasonable outcome.

More Glyphs actually gives +1 glyph (+2 with Thief).
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Re: Weird facts about mechanics

Postby shade_of_ox on Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:58 am

Hmm, you're actually right. It's just that most of these are so intrinsically rooted in the gameplay (no damage -> no corrosion damage, for instance) that I just kind of assume they are documented somewhere since these mechanics are so familiar to me. Meanwhile the actually documented stuff (like Magnet:Fireball vs Wizard) is not obvious to me simply because I don't pay attention (the number of glyphs is not actually very important to a wizard).
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Re: Weird facts about mechanics

Postby srid on Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:07 pm

Yes, despite being documented, it happens very rarely, so it's quite easy to remember the general rule and forget the edge case.

About the Thief, he gets +33% pickups, which means one more pickup for every three pickups. So instead of 5 base glyphs he gets 6, and taking More Glyphs means that he gets 6 base glyphs which turns into 8 glyphs.

Following the same logic, however, taking Conjunction with a Thief should spawn 4 altars in total, shouldn't it?
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