Review of the demo

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Re: Review of the demo

Postby Nandrew on Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:08 pm

Hammerfan wrote:Oh right, I forgot about that...

Still, having an option to choose between a couple of free preparations would add a lot more depth.


I do get what you're saying, and we do have that in mind (sort of): when the Witch Hut gets unlocked in your Kingdom, you'll be allowed to tweak your loadout of potions in quite some detail -- up to five different potions, one of each kind on selection, in any combination you fancy. These preparations may, if you wish, replace your standard health and mana tonics -- but you'll be down a slot either way, unfortunately. :P

Unlike health and mana potions, Witch brews are quite uncommon finds in dungeons, so there shouldn't be any stacking-related incentive problems with them.

---

I have been giving quite some thought to the potion design issue though (it's come up in a few places) and I definitely see where people are coming from. If our inventory architecture is flexible enough, I may look at stacking "like" potions into one slot, so that as long as players have at least one potion of that type already, they'll have incentive to pick up more without trouble.

This may still lead to occasional hoarding behaviour -- but this is if and only if players are willing to blow their initial potion stock prematurely to max out inventory (which becomes increasingly unlikely once the Witch comes into play, and even more unlikely if a halfling or gnome is selected). I'm hoping that this would be acceptable from a design point of view if the hoarding scenario ends up sufficiently rare as a result.

Don't take my word for it, though, I'll still have to discuss this with the team. I may have forgotten some non-demo effects which influence this.
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Re: Review of the demo

Postby dislekcia on Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:48 pm

Nandrew wrote:It's actually a weird little thing we're still wrestling with -- the concept of entrance ease versus scumming reduction.

Having dungeon preparations and whatnot is a nice extra in many ways (at least, people seem to enjoy it) but in the full Kingdom system, we want to make each dungeon session a *little* more of an investment so that people don't go in, say "oh, these conditions aren't the ideal ones that I've been minmaxing for" and just reroll the dungeon -- which the freeware was very permissive of. :P


It might make sense to have a quick play button on the map screen: If you've selected a dungeon that you've played before this session and can afford the setup you went in with last, the button lights up and gives you the option to go in like that again without having to select everything again.
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Re: Review of the demo

Postby fadedc on Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:38 am

Stacking potions would help, but the best choice would still be to leave potions on the floor until you need them. If you don't pick up any potions, then if you happen to drink the ones you have in the course of surviving the dungeon then you can replace them with something else until you need more. It won't happen that often, but it still creates a situation where there's an upside and no downside to hoarding. Even if you don't use up all of your potions, allowing for the option that you will use up a single type would allow you to carry an extra wisp amulet or other small item.

I guess the real question should be what is added to the game by having potions take up inventory slots. We know it detracts something from the game because it encourages leaving potions on the ground.

One option might be to have an inventory item called a potion kit which is required to pick up potions, but once you have it you can carry all you want. This should completely eliminate all hoarding while still making potions take up space. Or of course you could just go back to the way potions were carried in the freeware version, (where potions are just kept track of seperately at the top of the screen).
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Re: Review of the demo

Postby metroid composite on Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:51 pm

Nandrew wrote:(which becomes increasingly unlikely once the Witch comes into play, and even more unlikely if a halfling or gnome is selected)


One thing to consider: potions taking up inventory space is a nerf to Halfling/Gnome. (Which aren't exactly bad races, but really don't strike me as needing a nerf).
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Re: Review of the demo

Postby dislekcia on Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:54 am

We're already talking about potions internally as stacking/charged items now. The major reason for placing potions into the inventory was to create more decision points around magic/physical slot balance and to allow for more types of potion. We think you'll all really enjoy what the Witch has to offer :)
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Re: Review of the demo

Postby neongrey on Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:05 pm

Related or similar to how that one dungeon in the demo had one type of enemies dropping items that stacked in the potion slot for an attack buff?
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Re: Review of the demo

Postby Earthlion on Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:29 pm

How about reducing the effectiveness of Potions slightly, but giving them a minor stackable buff similar to the wisp gems?
Then there would be an incentive to pick them up.
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Re: Review of the demo

Postby dislekcia on Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:41 pm

neongrey wrote:Related or similar to how that one dungeon in the demo had one type of enemies dropping items that stacked in the potion slot for an attack buff?


Well, that was more about Rodain exploring the options the inventory granted him. But yes, we should have more sorts of little stackable items like that. We were originally thinking about soul gems as random drops from monsters that would impart small bonuses, but they didn't seem that much fun in the end, so we never implemented them.

Earthlion wrote:How about reducing the effectiveness of Potions slightly, but giving them a minor stackable buff similar to the wisp gems?
Then there would be an incentive to pick them up.


That's an interesting idea... If we gave potions a passive boost to potion effectiveness, players would want to carry more potions. Hmmm. This bears thinking about.
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Re: Review of the demo

Postby fadedc on Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:20 am

Well if it only boosted potion effectiveness, then we'd probably leave them on the floor until we were ready to drink our first potion (which most of the time isn't until we are taking on the boss).
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Re: Review of the demo

Postby dislekcia on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:02 am

fadedc wrote:Well if it only boosted potion effectiveness, then we'd probably leave them on the floor until we were ready to drink our first potion (which most of the time isn't until we are taking on the boss).


Yeah, it would lead to loading up potions once it was time to start using them. Doesn't solve the actual issue ;)

I reckon we'll probably just make them all stack on top of each other and see how that goes.
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