Help with extra dungeon in the freeware version?(Spoilers)

[joek0]

I have just started playing again since v.21 came out. I took a break since I had done about 75% of v.15. I am trying out the extra dungeon right now(Boss Hive). Since I am a little rusty, I am having trouble with this dungeon. The stat boosts to the enemies makes the dungeon run much harder. Can people offer some extra tips for the Boss Hive.

[Darvin]

The regular monsters are much stronger, but the boss is just a regular boss. This means that you'll probably be attacking the boss with fewer potions and at a lower level, but he's not as strong as a ranked mode boss and you only have one to worry about unlike the challenge dungeons. So you want to focus on tactics that suit a shorter buildup to take on the boss at a lower level.

Your best class choices, as always, are the Vampire and Transmuter. These guys are just plain broken to begin with, and shouldn't have any difficulty leveling up to a point at which they can smack down the boss. Aside from that, I find the Assassin is your best selection. His ability to auto-kill lower level monsters allows him to completely bypass their hyped up stats, while APHEELSIK gives you a reliable way to take on higher level monsters to get the XP rolling. The fighter is another top-notch choice, given that leveling up is your biggest challenge and he gets bonus XP as a class feature.

[TigerKnee]

Remember that not all bosses are equal, and if you get Tower of Goo/Meatman/Frank you could consider just retrying for a different boss. Meanwhile, Jormungand (and actually, snakes in general) and the Bandit Boss are complete pushovers.

[Darvin]

Wall of Goo is fine if you're playing the Vampire, Half-Dragon, have some way to boost your mana way up, or if you're lucky enough to find a flaming sword for sale. Any time you can deal lots of magic damage, WoG becomes very manageable. Don't count out Dracul or Mysteria as last-minute worship choices if the boss is WoG! Both have a relatively cheap boons for extra mana and their penalties are irrelevant if all that's left is duking it out with WoG.

Other bosses may also be quite weak depending on what you have. Gharbad is a joke if you have death protection. Medusa is easily dispatched if you have poison, and her low HP make her very vulnerable to attrition from an XP catapult or even a simple double-heal from the the Glowing Guardian. The Iron Man is a little challenging if you're counting on BURNDAYRAZ, but if you have other ways to expend your mana for extra damage (CYDSTEPP or HALPMEH work wonders here) he's easily dealt with.

[metroid composite]

Your best class choices, as always, are the Vampire and Transmuter.

Vampire is actually one of five classes (out of 19) with which I didn't beat the dungeon first try. There isn't much they can safely attack at level 1 in this dungeon, and level 1 is vampire's vulnerability-point.


The big strategy point of this dungeon is that the enemies are hard, but the boss is easy; expect to win at about level 5-7. Use snakes to level up (for some reason Serpents don't have boss stats). Gorgons, Vampires, and Imps are also good choices for level up slingshots. Strangely, Bandits aren't as much of a free level up as you might expect--you might get them when you're one level below them, but their HP is not that low, and you won't get any healing against them (unless you waste potions, but that's generally not worth it). Goats are easier than you might expect at low levels--you can usually survive them when your level is equal to theirs; and of course, once you're higher level you can usually just first strike OHKO them. On the high end...you probably shouldn't even consider attacking Zombies or Goo Blobs until you're higher level than them. (Unless you're really built to take them out, of course; like Dragon vs Goo Blob).

EDIT: Since you don't reach particularly high levels, you usually can't use regen strategies against the bosses, which probably means you should favour Elf or Halfling over Human.

[Darvin]

There isn't much they can safely attack at level 1 in this dungeon, and level 1 is vampire's vulnerability-point.

This is true, but he's pretty much home free if he gets to level 2. All you need is one good item, maybe a healing potion if you get desperate, but any situation that would screw over a vampire would probably screw over just about any other class. If you can find the Fine Sword at level 1, you're set. This will let you OHKO almost all level 1 monsters and easily get past those first few rough vampire levels without breaking a sweat.

[metroid composite]

but any situation that would screw over a vampire would probably screw over just about any other class.

That's...actually not true at all. A level 1 vampire AT FULL HEALTH is not as good at winning a fight as most level 1 classes if they pick up the fireball glyph. Sure, Vampires have first strike and thus deal an extra 7 damage, but two fireballs deal an extra 8 damage, so if you have any interesting class features at all, you'll be more dangerous than a full-health vampire against a single target.

And of course, Vampire usually doesn't have the luxury of fighting from full health; they can't regen between fights, and probably drop to 1 HP by the time they find their first enemy. And let's go over the enemies they can attack at 1 HP in when they're level 1 in the boss hive. Level 1 Goat. If they convert two glyphs they can attack level 1 Meat Man (as their regen will counteract the 1 damage). And I think Imp and Vampire are 120% HP mult which puts them at a killable 7 HP. And that's it. Gorgons first-strike, Bandits first strike, and everything else has 8-18 HP. So that's...three or four enemy types they can safely attack, out of 16. Given that only 10 level 1 enemies spawn total, and you probably can't reach more than about 8 of them we're probably talking 2 level 1 enemies you can safely attack without using a potion on any given map.

he's pretty much home free if he gets to level 2.

Well...not necessarily. If the fireball glyph is, say, behind a level 9 enemy, then Vampire probably can't win (unless they don't convert ENDISWALL, but I tend to--Vampire is so desperate for health early on that I tend to convert most glyphs for the lifesteal--maybe that's a mistake?)

Also, Vampire's a lot more level dependent than other classes--and the boss hive is the kind of dungeon where you might have to fight the boss at level 5 if you want to win. And sure, Vamp can still pump out about 450 damage at level 5 with potions and fireballs and first strike, but not the 1300 we're used to from level 8 Vamps. 450 gets shut down by a few bosses (Iron Man, Super Meat Man, Frank, Lord Gobb, maybe Matron of Flame).

[TigerKnee]

I actually won the Boss Hive dungeon as a vampire without Fireballs by worshipping Taurog. I don't remember how I did it though, but it's probably not a consistent strategy and I remember I had to do some really strange acrobatics and pulled through the skin of my teeth.

[joek0]

Thanks for all the advice! I was trying to do it with the vampire for the last few hours. The vampire run was tough for the first few levels in all my previous runs. But on my final vampire run, I was able to get momentum after hitting level 3. I can see that certain monster spawns are going to be tough for certain classes. When I found out that the boss was the iron man, I panicked. I started fighting him at level 6 with constant fireballs, but forgot of his massive magical resistance. I was able to beat him with physical attacks and level catapulting once to level 7. That was a hard run. I will next try a transmuter run.

Also, has anyone been able to clear the hive of all the monsters. Some of the tough ones are ones with high health or resistances.

[metroid composite]

Also, has anyone been able to clear the hive of all the monsters.

Not even close. Although to be fair: I haven't really tried--the dungeon is built such that the optimal strategy usually involves leaving 10+ enemies alive.

That's an interesting idea for a challenge run, though....