Dragon Isles not that Vicous

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Re: Dragon Isles not that Vicous

Postby TigerKnee on Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:08 pm

The Berserker isn't a very strong class if there's actually a mixed supply of enemies like in alpha, like in high level Gauntlet modes. +2 MP to glyph cost is a VERY harsh penalty.

It's just a rather focused class and currently a lot of these dungeons are way too skewed in its favoured.

I really don't want to see a knee-jerk nerfing of the class in the same way the Monk went through. Frankly I rather have improved the weaker classes than nerf the Monk.
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Re: Dragon Isles not that Vicous

Postby subanark on Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:02 pm

I'm thinking of a warlord strat:
If you can get 25 MP, then a single mana potion will restore the 10 MP needed to use the glyph once, gain the attack power bonus for using a mana potion, and ignore (mostly) mana burn. If you can manage this with a halfling, you are in good shape.

3 MP from power ups (2 more if you use the swap mana for life preparation) Having the mage plate (-5% attack power, +1MP on level up) will go a long ways. About 7-8 MP based on how you level up. The other can come from Drac, just use Blood cure and blood tithe, as you really don't need all that extra HP anyways. Use up for health pots before you worship drac, as he doesn't like that (or convert them for 10 conversion points and 5 piety). Ask for +MP until you have 25, with remaining piety you could ask for a blood swell without using protection from death (doesn't like that), although make sure you haven't sold all your life and can survive a hit. If you can calculate it, you may use that before you hit 25 MP and use your remaining health to get piety for +MP. Then use the heck out of protection from death while fighting the boss (or minions), throwing a few fireballs at the start. After that use death protection, followed by a mana potion to cast it again. Drac will punish you, but losing 1/2 your max HP doesn't matter at this point.

Glowing Guardian can be good as an initial god if you can manage to get Enlightenment and back up to 50 piety to convert. The lower level will help in the XP, and that +1 extra MP from mage plate. Mystera can be a replacement for drac in getting mana, but is less ideal. However, the ability to recharge between those weaker dragons can be helpful. If you do Mystera early on, you can use Tiki later for that XP boost when killing lower monsters, and possibly convert a health potion into reflex. Even though he doesn't like death protection (a lot), his punishment doesn't matter, except that it makes the reflex potion worthless, so if you get one, use it early (the extra gold might help too). Don't ask for poison blade, as his punishment will remove poison from the enemies.
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Re: Dragon Isles not that Vicous

Postby q 3 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:40 pm

Looks like I spoke too soon about no viable Purist strategies. Shameless bragging time. :)

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Props to Wargizmo for inspiring me. What I did was gain a few levels normally, then worship Dracul, taking a Blood Curse and as many Blood Tithes as possible, then a whole bunch of extra max MP, then converted to Tikki Tooki (I think I desecrated Taurog to get enough piety for the switch). Took Tikki Edge and proceeded fireball the initial boss, level up on low level monsters, taking a second Tikki Edge when available, then switching to poison + fireball when I needed more fodder enemies. Once the initial boss was dead and my piety was near max, I switched back to Dracul to max out my MP yet again. Managed to get a fair amount of fireballs in with poison against the true boss, helped by a very late find of BLUDTOPOWA (would have been ever better if I'd saved LEMMISI and used that combo in the subdungeon, but oh well). Took her out without any of the fireball boosting gear, and resources to spare.

This is a frighteningly powerful combo - just got the Purist medal against Indomitable with it, too - I think the biggest problems are (1) Blood Tithe doesn't scale with level or diminish in potency with each use; it probably should either increase in HP cost or decrease in piety gain every time you use it; and (2) Blood Power is too strong (roughly half the piety cost of Mystera's Magic for the amount of MP you get, with no penalty other than Dracul being slightly more finicky about piety gain). With Tikki Tooki giving so much gold and fireball improving items becoming more common, the only real counters are 100% magic resist and Counter Fireball (both of which obviously shut this strategy down completely).
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Re: Dragon Isles not that Vicous

Postby bla0815 on Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:54 am

@q3: Whoa! That's pretty cool stuff. I love that there are already very different approaches in this game and i love seeing the cool stuff other people come up with. Concerning the dracul balance i personally feel that blood tithe is fine for the other boons or getting 50 piety to convert. Usually only blood power is worth trading in your max hp in such a relentless fashion.

@Dragon Isles Strategies: I discovered a way to utilise the goblins, which is also strong at the dragon isles in particular. A prerequisite is that you have access to a tikki tooki altar without killing too much on the way. The idea is that converting on lvl 1 allows you to gain more piety earlier, which then results in earlier levels of Tikki's edge as you nearly never (certainly not in the early levels) have to fight against enemies that don't grant piety. While not very different from TT gameplay in general this grants just the edge to make bonus xp for higher level monsters obsolete. Also you get even more money this way than TT gives anyways. Whenever you find yourself stuck with monsters of the same level convert some stuff (when in doubt buy stuff to convert) and get ahead of them again. At the end lvl 10 is easily reached with very little tiles used for regeneration. In combination with the poison boon this means a very easy boss fight.
And if you luck out and find an early WONAFYT, you can summon new fodder for the next level and the amount of undiscovered tiles used is massively decreased further. It might even happen that you want to summon the boss if you didn't find him till lvl 10. This naturally works well with assassins and fighters and assassins have quite a good time at the isles anyway.

Shameless bragging time. :)

Let's call it balance feedback. That sounds so much nicer. Which has nothing to do with the fact that i just lucked out with early wonafyt and midas and have the desire to erm... give a second opinion. Yeah that's it. Definitely :P
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Re: Dragon Isles not that Vicous

Postby q 3 on Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:39 am

Finding a use for Goblins and WONAFYT? Awesome.
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Re: Dragon Isles not that Vicous

Postby Wargizmo on Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:50 am

Oh great q_3 you broke my favourite strategy and now it will probably be nerfed... this is why we can't have nice things!

Seriously though well done, I always enjoyed having fun with this build but had no idea it had that much potential.
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Re: Dragon Isles not that Vicous

Postby GG Crono on Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:26 pm

Bumping with content!

A lot people's strategy suggestions for other dungeons revolve around getting a Dragon Shield, but I still can't beat this thing. The closest I've come is with a Halfling Berserker, but I always seem to run out of steam midway through the dragon guards. What doesn't help is I can never seem to be able to kill blobs or armors until I'm several levels above them.

Is there some trick to this that I'm not quite grasping? Something obvious that I'm missing?
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Re: Dragon Isles not that Vicous

Postby TigerKnee on Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:59 pm

For killing armors, remember that while their HP may regenerate, their death protections don't. They're very hard to beat in a straight-up brawl for classes that aren't the Monk/Paladin/Sorcerer, but most any classes can wear them down over time. Fireball is very helpful for shaving off more DP per regeneration run even at the Berserker's inflated cost.
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Re: Dragon Isles not that Vicous

Postby Darvin on Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:01 pm

I'd still say armors above level 7 are mostly untouchable; they cost too many resources to take down unless you've got the opportunity to smack them repeatedly with PISORF for an inexpensive way to knock out death protection. You certainly need to be getting bonus XP for it to be worth your while, so that means if you have a level 6 or 7 armor in the end-game you should just ignore it.

This monster really goes down with the Ice Troll as a creature that is absurdly strong compared to other monsters of the same level unless you have a trick up your sleeve to beat its core advantage.
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Re: Dragon Isles not that Vicous

Postby GG Crono on Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:58 pm

Yeah, that's what I thought. I could still use some general advice, especially in light of the newly-nerfed trisword.
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