Desktop Dungeons beta update: crazy old people

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Re: Desktop Dungeons beta update: crazy old people

Postby aguydude on Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:19 am

q 3 wrote:Maybe the Venom Sword could add +1% phys resist to the monster every time you strike with it? That should make it less abusable but still quite useful.

Meh, that will just make people abuse Apheelsik instead. Maybe poison should reduce health regeneration by 75% instead of by 100% (for players, too if you really want consistency :P) . That won't completely prevent abuse, but it will stop the more egregious cases.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons beta update: crazy old people

Postby subanark on Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:18 am

Darvin wrote:I've been trying the Dragon Shield approach, as well, but I just can't seem to pull it off -_-

Mind enlightening us to the ridiculousness of part 6?

Took me many tries to get this down. I took Tri-Sword, +1 gold, scout alter, Switch MP to HP, 25G, +2 Shield, Strength potion. Find Taurog, if not reset. Use Strength potion for +20 attack, find and destroy enough glyphs to get the shield and sword. Kill a level 2 or 3 off the bat. Get the armor when you have enough piety, save low level bandits until level 6ish. Have taurog spawn extra item (but don't equip them) to prevent getting too much piety. Hope you get can +attack power per kill sword. Hope for a heroes badge (I didn't get this), hope you don't get GG (you can't afford to smash his alter). Use potions to help leveling as they won't help with boss. When you hit level 8 (or 7 if you think you have enough attack), hit the boss once, then let him regen just enough to no longer be beserk. Then hit him again. At this point, burn all your potions and secondary item to make room for taurog's stuff and ask for death protion (if you can get a medal, use it here). Ideally it should only take 2 hits to take out a death protection. Then burn though as many death protections you need destroying any alter except GG (unless you got an agnostic's collar) to get extra piety to finish him off. In my run I had GG and no heroes badge, but I did get the zombie subdungeon which provided a nice bonus of extra XP, in addition to lots of extra explore tiles. The zombies don't seem to scale with dungeon difficulty.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons beta update: crazy old people

Postby Wargizmo on Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:39 am

Darvin wrote:I've been trying the Dragon Shield approach, as well, but I just can't seem to pull it off -_-


Dragon shield approach worked really well for me. I did it twice, once with pure Taurog and once with GG -> Tikki (the Taurog game crashed when I was a few swings away from killing the boss so I had to do it again).

I don't know what race you're doing but I think human is pretty much a necessity to negate the -25% damage of the wizard, I tried with dwarf but I just wasn't doing enough damage to make it viable.

There's a bit of a trick to levelling up with those berserkers, you need to get your damage so you do about 60-70% of their health per berserker (ideally against the ones 1 level higher than your hero), then you take a swing at 2 or 3 of them at once, sending them all berserk, then you explore just enough that they all go back to just over 50% then you take them down with a single swing per berserker without taking berserk damage.

The GG -> Tikki game was actually pretty easy, with enlightenment, dragon shield and poison the boss is fairly easy as long as you leave the subdungeons unexplored. I took smugglers den and tried to level up on the berserkers as much as possible so there was still some lower level enemies around at the end for tikki farming.

Edit: just did part 6 with GG -> Tikki + Dragon shield as well, starting to think this combo might be almost overpowered, you start off levelling up on higher level monsters and converting glyphs, potions and items for GG piety, then switch over to tikki once you have enlightenment, instantly grabbing tikkis edge lvl1 and then lvl2 soon after while farming all the remaining low level riff raff, by the time you take the boss on you have poison, enlightenment, at least 43% resists, and are often level 10 as well, and not just regular level 10, the extra buff level 10 that's actually level 11 from taking humility, not to mention you have tons of cash from tikki so you'll get pretty much every decent item on the map and/or a ton of conversion points.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons beta update: crazy old people

Postby q 3 on Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:08 pm

The Strength Potion boosts knockback damage, but does not wear off if you cast PISORF. That's an incredibly powerful combination, although PISORF is still fairly tricky to use as your primary offense.

EDIT: LOL @ Strength Potion. (A few times when I was trying to set this up, I even got a second Strength Potion from a shop. That's pretty much hax.)
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Re: Desktop Dungeons beta update: crazy old people

Postby q 3 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:25 am

PISORF + Rock Heart + Strength Potion = ???
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Re: Desktop Dungeons beta update: crazy old people

Postby Halion on Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:14 am

Unlike any other preparation item, I can put shop scrolls in the guild locker.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons beta update: crazy old people

Postby Wargizmo on Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:57 am

Halion wrote:Unlike any other preparation item, I can put shop scrolls in the guild locker.


Now they just need to start selling them in shops
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Re: Desktop Dungeons beta update: crazy old people

Postby fall_ark on Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:03 am

Wargizmo wrote:
Halion wrote:Unlike any other preparation item, I can put shop scrolls in the guild locker.


Now they just need to start selling them in shops


Yo dawg...

I'm wondering if Potion shops can have two potions instead of one to sell....
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Re: Desktop Dungeons beta update: crazy old people

Postby TigerKnee on Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:27 pm

I don't get it, what's the strength potion abuse method?
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Re: Desktop Dungeons beta update: crazy old people

Postby q 3 on Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:11 pm

TigerKnee wrote:I don't get it, what's the strength potion abuse method?


There's two methods (that I know of). Strength Potions deplete your mana and give you +2 base damage for each MP you had; the effect wears off after your next physical attack, but in the meantime your mana still regenerates normally. At level 1, depending on how much max MP you can achieve, you can get anywhere from +20 to around +30 base damage (Sorcerers can get even more), which basically gives you the equivalent of a level 5-7 attack. Slap that effect on a character with lots of bonus damage and some means of attacking a high level enemy without dying and you can usually kill something somewhere around level 4 to 8, depending on the dungeon (Rogues are the obvious choice, but there are several other possibilities). Add some combination of a second Strength Potion (their effects stack), Enlightenment or Taurog's gear, an Orc with lots of conversion points, the Avatar Mark, BICEPS, etc., and you too can kill the (weakest) boss in a single hit at level 1.

The second method relies on the fact that the Strength Potion buff doesn't wear off until you actually attack an enemy. If you never attack anything, you can keep the effect for an entire dungeon run. Since base damage also determines how much damage PISORF does, you can use a Strength Potion to achieve a fairly decent magical attack even at level 1 (20 max MP = 5 + 40 base damage = 22 damage every time you PISORF something into a wall). Combine that with the fact that a Wizard with the Rock Heart only spends 1 MP to PISORF something into a wall (4 MP - 1 [Wizard bonus] - 2 [Rock Heart regeneration] = 1) and you are dealing 22 damage for 1 MP, which is more damage per mana than even a level 10 Wizard with Flames, Battlemage Ring, and maxed out Fire Heart, making it fairly easy to kill the boss at level 1. Your only limit is the number of walls available for smashing.

In short, the Strength Potion is quite powerful - probably overpowered, especially compared with the other potions (Schadenfreude is handy, particularly for a CYDSTEPPer with high max MP, but doesn't have nearly as much abuse potential early on; Whupaz is great for Monks and reasonably useful for other classes, but isn't going to get you boss kills all that much earlier than you'd normally achieve and is worthless against normal enemies; Reflex is nice but not all that powerful; Quicksilver is worthless; and the Burn and Fortitude potions are apparently useful on occasion but I can't be bothered to take them or buy them when there are so many more useful items available). I like that it adds to PISORF and doesn't wear off and actually would prefer that that not change, especially since PISORF doesn't have many other buffs at the moment and is of limited utility anyway (and it's fairly rare, too - I had to scum way too many times to find it when I was attempting method #2). Probably the best thing to do would be to make it scale better with level, either by tying the effect to HP instead of MP or imposing a cap of no more than 5 (?) extra base damage per your level.
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