Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby Lujo on Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:22 am

I'm glad the discussion is up and going, and to remember the main topic - the new race unlocks seem to suffer from the same problem that unlocikng whupaz had. Namely, balancing crap around fundamentaly broken classes makes quests criminaly tedious or plain impossible, and makes testing new content a serious chore...

Also, many ideas and insight i like on the previous page, and I like the "testing and pruning" I believe is announced on the front page, hope the devs are reading all this :)
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby Gorgon on Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:26 am

The new monster classes are just an add-on, nothing mandatory, but I agree the quest for the gorgon class is absurdly difficult.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby The Avatar on Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:58 am

I finally got 2, but 3 WINS? WHAT? HOW THE HECK??????
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I speak chaos.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby Lujo on Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:42 am

This game could have it's own meme: Scum for CYDSTEP! Scum for CYDSTEP! XD
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby Gorgon on Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:50 am

CYDSTEPP is not as unbalanced as you think, there is exhaustion to take into account, but if it ever changes it should have 12 MP cost.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby The Avatar on Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:57 pm

I'd go for 11 not twelve. The great thing about 10, was it fit incredibly well with GETINDARE, and used exactly your 13 mana.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby q 3 on Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:36 pm

CYDSTEPP is only really broken for Rogues, and the addition of Exhaustion doesn't really change that (since Rogues are least affected by it, due to their lower max HP). Any further weakening of CYDSTEPP is going to unnecessarily hurt Warlords (or involve specific exemptions for Warlords, which feel rather clumsy to me). The best thing to do, I think, is tweak Rogues so that they aren't quite so overpowered with CYDSTEPP (but somewhat stronger without it). Something like +70% damage but only when their HP is above 50% has been suggested before, and I think that would work well.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby The Avatar on Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:43 pm

That's why I'd go with my above rogues pay 1 hp per level in addition to mana cost. But warlords do need a nerf, or JJ does because I beat every vicious but the tower using gnome warlord...
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby gjaustin on Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:45 pm

The Avatar wrote:I'd go for 11 not twelve. The great thing about 10, was it fit incredibly well with GETINDARE, and used exactly your 13 mana.


11 would also still allow Berserkers to use it without depending on preps or shop items.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby Lujo on Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:47 am

A question, doesn't neccesarily have to turn out to be important, but is CYDSTEPP only realy broken for Rogues, or is it just most obviously broken on rogues, as it eliminates their "balancing" disadvantage almost completely?

What I'm going at, and it has been nagging me for a while, is having death protection on a glyph beneficial to the game as a whole? The rogue bussiness just makes it absurd, but really, it lets certain physical classes ignore the health stat almost all togaher, it makes sorcerers absurd (only less so than the rouges, so i'ts not as obvious), it makes one of fighter's abilities look terrible, and since it's on a glyph, classes that "need" it, need to scum for it while wasting money on preps for every run they don't find it/don't find it early enough.

If it was on an item with limited uses (kind of like a souped up badge, with, say, 3 charges that still consume mana, with or without the att bonus, or with some other passive ability), it could be lockerable and thus eliminate the need to scum for it, it would be limited use so the fighter and the badge would be more appriceated, and the warlord could be remade into a pissedorff/wheytwhut based class which could be real nice (maybe something talored for dwarves somehow), and which we currently don't have.

The reason is that some melle classes are sort of dependent on / broken by, having an theoreticaly infinite your-physical-damage-fireball for mana, which still does f***-all to help against melee resistant bosses, and is a cheezy solution to super-high dmg bosses who the burndayrazz guys burn to death anyway. And to be honest, the only real reason bosses like bleaty exist is because death-protection-on-a-glyph exists, if it didn't - there probably wouldn't be any real need for them (or way around them, apart from resists, which at leat you can prepare / choose class for).

If this is implemented, as a step between the badge and Namtars ward, and the warlord reworked into a more interesting, and possibly non paradox character (honestly, the tier 3 guild guy can't use Taurog and gives superpowers to the lvl 2 thief guild and mage tower guys, wheyt wut? ), a new glyph could be invented, focusing on features added since alpha - piety (sanctified strike glyph?), conversion seal glyph (which also adds a little piety?), berserk glyph?, shield glyph (could give dmg resistance, as well as cure yet uncurable debuffs possibly?). Haven't seen new glyph ideas lately, but there is tons of new content you could spin one off, and cydstepp is quite obviously messing stuff up in the "boss stats requirements department", even if it's plain retarded only on a rogue.

On a glyph related sidenote: some of the mentioned glyphs may sound a bit lame, but as long as a glyph isn't broken, they are still conversion fodder, and as for lemissi, summoning and getinthare, some of the features could be added to them to make them more viable and interesting the way endiswall and imawal were remade. I'd still make at least one original one, and ditch cydstepp for an item with the same funcitonality. And rework the damn warlord, i'd love to have a pissedorff class, with a hamer or somesuch (which would make early campaign wizards less retarded, as it would let you unlock pissedorff only at guild lvl 3)
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