Beta update: Soko and Crime

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Re: Beta update: Soko and Crime

Postby 232 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:01 am

Darvin wrote:Bottom line is that this class will be balanced on the presumption you have a rock heart (when they finally get it right), so why not just cut to the chase and make him start with the blasted thing in his inventory rather than creating a locker tax for transmuters.


Agreed. It's pretty much mandatory to have rock heart in your inventory. While I figure I "can" do quests without it, why would I?
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Re: Beta update: Soko and Crime

Postby FDru on Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:42 am

232 wrote:Agreed. It's pretty much mandatory to have rock heart in your inventory. While I figure I "can" do quests without it, why would I?


Because you can... which I guess was the point I was trying to make. After setting out on a few hard runs without the rock heart, I find the transmuter is certainly capable without it. As I mentioned, the main hurdle is getting your max mana up more than anything.

But anyway, yeah, it does kinda seem like a no-brainer transmuter item. Maybe if ENDISAL wasn't so horribly expensive for non-transmuters this wouldn't be an issue at all, because it could be viable for everyone. Or maybe because you get the item when you unlock transmuters it isn't really an issue because you can just go get one (I find them in shops in just about every single run as it is).
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Re: Beta update: Soko and Crime

Postby Wargizmo on Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:02 pm

FDru wrote:6 is easy and you will feel dumb when you figure it out (at least I did).


Figured it out finally, but I didn't feel dumb, as I said there was a game mechanic I didn't know about, that is (spoiler ahead) the boss loses all his damage once you lock all the trolls into place, I always just figured he lost hitpoints but retained his damage, since on all the other dungeons I had to use up my protection to beat him at the end.
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Re: Beta update: Soko and Crime

Postby The Avatar on Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:18 pm

Okay... even though this is from awhile back I have a problem. I cannot get the warmonger medal so therefore it is impossible to complete complicated tasks part 5
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
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Re: Beta update: Soko and Crime

Postby q 3 on Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:53 pm

The current Transmuter is by far the least dependent on the Rock Heart of the three beta incarnations, probably because his class ability is basically two built-in Rock Hearts. A third is nice but also redundant. It's no longer a matter of extra MP regeneration with the Rock Heart or no MP regeneration without, because you'll now regenerate MP either way - all the Rock Heart does is give more MP with fewer walls consumed. Since most dungeons have many more walls than you'll actually need, it's not that big of a boost. Most of the time you'd probably be better off with the Trisword.

Also keep in mind that the current Transmuter regenerates +4 MP every time a wall is destroyed, regardless of how it's destroyed. PISORF into a wall costs a net 0 MP (+2 MP with the Rock Heart, but if PISORF is the only glyph you're using the extra regen is nowhere near as useful as extra base damage would be, especially since Transmuters don't get much benefit from Strength Potion abuse) and adding knockback to your attack is like having a +4 MP lifesteal.

Even the low MP cap on the current Transmuter is mostly irrelevant; all it does is make it hard to cast the expensive spells (WEYTWUT, APHEELSIK, and CYDSTEPP) but those have very limited utility for a Transmuter. For everything else, you have nearly limitless regeneration mid-fight, so the only times you'd benefit from a higher max MP is on level up or when quaffing a mana potion (and against Namtar, who can be unbeatable if you're relying exclusively on PISORF and haven't increased your max before you go down).
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Re: Beta update: Soko and Crime

Postby MrGuy on Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:40 pm

I can't figure out number 7 for the life of me, even though I found 6 fairly easy. :cry:
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Re: Beta update: Soko and Crime

Postby aguydude on Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:40 pm

q 3 wrote:The current Transmuter is by far the least dependent on the Rock Heart of the three beta incarnations, probably because his class ability is basically two built-in Rock Hearts. A third is nice but also redundant. It's no longer a matter of extra MP regeneration with the Rock Heart or no MP regeneration without, because you'll now regenerate MP either way - all the Rock Heart does is give more MP with fewer walls consumed. Since most dungeons have many more walls than you'll actually need, it's not that big of a boost. Most of the time you'd probably be better off with the Trisword.

Also keep in mind that the current Transmuter regenerates +4 MP every time a wall is destroyed, regardless of how it's destroyed. PISORF into a wall costs a net 0 MP (+2 MP with the Rock Heart, but if PISORF is the only glyph you're using the extra regen is nowhere near as useful as extra base damage would be, especially since Transmuters don't get much benefit from Strength Potion abuse) and adding knockback to your attack is like having a +4 MP lifesteal.

Even the low MP cap on the current Transmuter is mostly irrelevant; all it does is make it hard to cast the expensive spells (WEYTWUT, APHEELSIK, and CYDSTEPP) but those have very limited utility for a Transmuter. For everything else, you have nearly limitless regeneration mid-fight, so the only times you'd benefit from a higher max MP is on level up or when quaffing a mana potion (and against Namtar, who can be unbeatable if you're relying exclusively on PISORF and haven't increased your max before you go down).


I think this version is massively overpowered for Fireball runs, too. It's easy enough to get an orc to 10 max mana. That and a rock heart will yield a nice rate of .66 fireballs per wall. Even if you don't find a fire heart or better yet a ring of the battle mage, don't expect to have much trouble unless you're on a level that is very low on walls. Double his EXP requirements and he'd be closer to being balanced...but probably still way overpowered on wall-heavy maps.

MrGuy wrote:I can't figure out number 7 for the life of me, even though I found 6 fairly easy. :cry:


Hint: You can position 2 of them without using Pisorf.

Explanation of Hint:
Useless Step 1: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/82 ... eless.png/
Step 2: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/695/step2bg.png/
End Result: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/later.png/
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Re: Beta update: Soko and Crime

Postby bla0815 on Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:42 pm

Whoa! You should have mentioned somewhere that item swap works now in the inventory!
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Re: Beta update: Soko and Crime

Postby dislekcia on Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:31 pm

bla0815 wrote:Whoa! You should have mentioned somewhere that item swap works now in the inventory!


Oh, yeah, it does ;)

Glad it's being used.
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