Beta Update: an open letter to the Kingdom

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Re: Beta Update: an open letter to the Kingdom

Postby Darvin on Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:53 am

Wellllll... personally I would move Rogue/Thief down to High and Warlord up to Top.

I could definitely see putting warlord in top tier and thief in high tier. Wouldn't move the rogue down, though. With CYDSTEPP and Dracul's blood tithe/bloodpower combo, an Orc rogue is positively nuts and as a result it would be my choice of class for the top spot overall.

Berserker is very hard to place but I definitely don't think he's Top except out of sheer concidence that there are so many mana burning and high powered magic attacks in Vicious dungeons.

Agreed; that's exactly why I put him there.

It would be like in an alternate reality where all the Vicious dungeon bosses were undead or something and then we put Priest in high just because of that.

Unfortunately for the priest, the only undead-heavy dungeon is the Crypt, and the boss there actually makes the priest's 100% healing potion a liability rather than an asset. Furthermore, his class features just aren't as strong as the berserker to begin with, and the only deity he synergizes well with is Binlor.

I think it's been said a lot of times that Fighter is going to remain the same (which is sad)

Fighter needs a serious buff. The easiest way to buff him would be to refresh his death protection at every level-up. That would instantly catapult him to being one of the stronger classes, and would actually allow this class feature to stack with the CYDSTEPP glyph.

Something's gotta happen with the monk, but I'm not sure what. He's gone from one of the strongest classes to one of the weakest through a succession of nerfs and introduction of extremely powerful items that don't stack with his class features.

Has anyone figured out the warmonger problem

Nope; probably going to have to wait on the devs for this one.
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Re: Beta Update: an open letter to the Kingdom

Postby gjaustin on Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:22 pm

Darvin wrote:
It would be like in an alternate reality where all the Vicious dungeon bosses were undead or something and then we put Priest in high just because of that.

Unfortunately for the priest, the only undead-heavy dungeon is the Crypt, and the boss there actually makes the priest's 100% healing potion a liability rather than an asset. Furthermore, his class features just aren't as strong as the berserker to begin with, and the only deity he synergizes well with is Binlor.


Nah, just wait to use the potion until AFTER you reveal his new square.


As for the rest of your list, I mostly agree. My only comments would be that I think the Sorcerer and Priest are quite a bit better than the Assassin and arguably about as good as the Bloodmage.

I also happen to think that Monk is the worst class, not Fighter (mostly thanks to Dragon Shield), but that's not a very meaningful distinction.



Anyway, I like your idea of renewing the Fighter's death protection on level up. My balance ideas:

1) Lower Trisword to 2 damage per level (readjust monster health if necessary).
2) Lower Dragon Shield to 20% resists (maybe 25%).
3) Change Monk back to straight -% damage (probably -60%). Alternatively, give them a higher damage resist cap than anyone else.
4) Make poison work the old way for Assassins only.
5) Lower Berserker's magic resist to 33%.
6) Do something for Wizards. Maybe reduce their damage penalty or give them bonus Fireball damage?
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Re: Beta Update: an open letter to the Kingdom

Postby TigerKnee on Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:43 pm

The Sorcerer is extremely strong in the early game as long as you have a good glyph but his advantages peter out as you approach late game. In this version of DD, the early-game is basically the easiest part because you can bring a bunch of preparations and you mostly want power for the later parts of the dungeon, which is where the Sorcerer doesn't quite catch up.

My comments:

1) Looks okay.

2) Same. Though it's sad when even at 20% each the Dragon Shield is better than 2 of Trog's items

3) Naw, if we're going to revamp the monk, let's make him more interesting. People really only tolerated the old monk because he abuses items very well in Alpha which is where all his interesting play came from, in a sense. With the new item set-up he's just boring now.

4) I don't know, I already think the Cydstepp change to specifically favour Warlords is rather... clunky.

5) If you lower the Berserker's Magic Resist, you probably need to readjust his other abilities. -2 glyph cost is VERY crippling along with the Wizard's -25% damage. If the designers stop relying on Mana Burners he won't be as good anymore.

6) No objections. I daresay to remove the damage penalty entirely.
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Re: Beta Update: an open letter to the Kingdom

Postby gjaustin on Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:17 pm

Hmm, that's a fair enough point about the Sorcerer. His late game bonuses are sort of subtle (13+ extra mana, 92+ extra health, 8+ "bonus damage" per hit).


On the Berserker, you may very well be right that he'd need another buff to offset the loss of resistances. I almost included a suggestion for that, but I think that considering he already has +60% damage, he may end up not needing it.
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Re: Beta Update: an open letter to the Kingdom

Postby The Avatar on Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:35 pm

YES!

SUCK ON THAT NAMTAR!

Got to credit the devs for namtar its truly incredible. For a rogue though the last three forms are incredibly easy with the first strike even with underworld penalties. That makes to Vicious wins with a rogue (Nammy, avatar) and one with a monk (matron). Now I just got to beat Naga City
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Re: Beta Update: an open letter to the Kingdom

Postby aguydude on Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:51 am

TigerKnee wrote:4) I don't know, I already think the Cydstepp change to specifically favour Warlords is rather... clunky.


It would feel less clunky if the Cydstepp's description said nothing about Warlords and Warlord's had a special "Immune to Exhaustion" ability. This has no impact on gameplay, it just makes things feel less clunky.


Darvin wrote:Fighter needs a serious buff. The easiest way to buff him would be to refresh his death protection at every level-up. That would instantly catapult him to being one of the stronger classes, and would actually allow this class feature to stack with the CYDSTEPP glyph.


Yes! Fighter is awful. His only ability that isn't almost totally useless is +1 EXP, but earning fast EXP can be done by killing high level monsters...using a class that isn't awful. Maybe replace finding low level monsters with +10% (5%?) on both resists, and simultaneously nerf Dragon Shield.
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Re: Beta Update: an open letter to the Kingdom

Postby The Avatar on Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:15 am

Could not agree more on fighter. The class just plain sucks.
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Re: Beta Update: an open letter to the Kingdom

Postby The Avatar on Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:18 pm

As for monk I beat matron of flame with human monk with taurog and trisword just by saving half the map and regen fighting the matron, so while its dull it isn't that bad at lev 10 if they don't poison
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Re: Beta Update: an open letter to the Kingdom

Postby The Avatar on Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:57 pm

They should add a desert tile set for northern desert and a library tileset for demonic library
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Re: Beta Update: an open letter to the Kingdom

Postby Darvin on Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:08 pm

The Avatar wrote:They should add a desert tile set for northern desert and a library tileset for demonic library

I'd imagine those are forthcoming.

As for the monk, Trisword/Taurog is pretty much the only workable combo, and that's half of his problem. Taurog is in need of a buff for just about every other class (haven't purchased boons from him except with Berserker and Monk in ages) but that is first predicated on lowering the synergy between him and monks/berserkers.
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