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QCF Design Community • View topic - Thoughts on Items


Thoughts on Items

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Thoughts on Items

Postby Blovski on Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:44 am

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Re: Thoughts on Items

Postby Darvin on Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:06 am

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Re: Thoughts on Items

Postby The Avatar on Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:28 am

It isn't always a problem. NC is special, DI gives you as much as any other hard dungeon, Namtar gives double (needs a change), and DL gives you 5 times the normal amount (which doesn't matter, because the level is so hard right now you might as well ignore it. Okay, a little over exaggerated, but you get the point). I think just making Nammy forms 1/2 only drop one of those gold piles would be fine.
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Re: Thoughts on Items

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:17 am

I think it's important that some items are supposed to be useful at low levels, some at high, and some are supposed to be niche, others general purpose. It's annoying when the RNG gives you nothing to work with, but them's the breaks.

It is easy to fall into he trap of calling something useless if you never PREP it, as opposed to picking it up in-game. Some items aren't supposed to be amazing to prep, but useful to have in a shop if you need it.


Troll Heart
A good-for low level item. I use it all the time if i find it early, otherwise don't bother. That's how its supposed to work.

Pendant of Mana
VERY useful in early game for hitting double fireball + first strike threshold. Also, it reliably spawns to you never need to prep it

Venom Dagger
Underrated item. It can give you the edge you need if you have no resources at hand, and is a SMALL ITEM to boot. Having one extra item slot is a serious upside to this item. I buy it all the time for catapulting.

Piercing Wand
I never use this, but then i rarely play pure spell-caster. I can see it's uses, but it requires massive resources to leverage.
Perhaps decoupling it from fireball, and making it act like a RBS for magic would make it less daunting for hybrid players.

Battlemage Ring
Again, only for spellcasters and fireball spikes against phys res bosses

Platemail
Definitely one of the most straight forward and all-upside items. it is probably a little OP, and the fact that it provides such obvious benefits makes it applicable to most characters. Adding something to make it a little more complex, such as the slow suggested earlier, might bring it into more niche territory

The best part about it is that you can buy it any time for instant defense, no build up needed, like the health items

Balanced Dagger
This is fun to use, and effective when you use it well. I have no problem with this, that's how items are supposed to be; providing options in play, no direct buff or debuff.

Stone Sigil
Haven't found a huge use for this, although it has been fun to use when I have. Like the balanced dagger, it gives the player options

Martyr Wraps
A little like the platemail; lost of upside that is easy to leverage for a downside that is easy to ignore.

A more complex debuff might be good; something like lower maximum resist when wearing them, or a layer of curse when you kill an enemy.

Namtar's Ward
Never used it.
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Re: Thoughts on Items

Postby Lujo on Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:20 am

Here's me:

Troll Heart
I've herd people complaining about it even when it was a mini-conversion stone. I also seem to remember seeing a buff to it's CP cost to 55 at some point. I use it all the time, I'd take one to the grave with me, and consider it one of the best "lvling" items - stuff you convert before the end game. I'm not sure if it couldn't be buffed in some way. Specific use: - pick it up for 5 lvls and enjoy a double hit of sanguine without penalties.

I'm not happy about the +10 HP pendant, but with the nerfs to slayer wand, I may start using the pendant again, as well.

Pendant of Mana

No clue, except that it allows 2 fireballs without boosters, like someone said.

Piercing Wand

I'm not happy with it. Sure, I'd use it if I needed it, but since Bycepps removes both and costs no gold, I somehow always end up not using it. And I fight a 50% res both boss more often than not.


Battlemage Ring

Has the same problem as any BURNDYRAZ booster - comparison to Martyr Wraps. And inventory space cometition with it. Honestly the inventory space issues is what causes me not to pick it up, rather than the gold cost.

Platemail

I have no clue what my last profile playthrough would've looked like if I didn't unlock this thing right off the bat by chance. Auto prep untill I unlocked Martyr Wraps, boosts your effective resist cap, and since it's a quest item, you can pretty much guarantee it if you unlock the quest items selectively (most newbies won't be able to unlock all), and then you don't even HAVE to prep it - just take quest items.

Balanced Dagger

People were liking it so much I dreaded complaining about it - not to mention that it was buffed from the original, so complaining might've led to a "situation". It's not a viable item outside of Gaan'Telet (where you gat myriad lvl 10's). Or rather, it's not worth more than 5 or so gold. The opportunity to use it is too low, and getting use out of it removes further chances to get use out of it. Big problems here, due to how the game works.

Venom Dagger

Rather situational, and could use a buff of some sort, but any buff to functionality (say, letting you click on it to choose which attack poisons) would turn it into a weird glyph/item hybrid. Adding a gold cost to the toggle might work. Otherwise it's not as bad as people think (comparing anything to the Poison boon is silly). I've also used it to farm some piety with TT.

Stone Sigil

I was of this opinion as well, except that I figured out why it was costed so prohibitively - it's really, really good. In theory. There's only so much extra piety to be squeezed out of monsters, and this thing isn't getting tested on account of costing a bit too much for what it does.


Martyr Wraps

Errr, people are suggesting I be "buried" with this thing. I say that would make one owerpowered subdungeon. I got an endgame vid of a monk where I converted whoopaz, had below mediocre damage and still beat up Horratio. I even converted it when it raised my damage from 60 to around 90. Agree with Darvin.

Mage Plate

Haven't played spellcasters since the nerf, unrelated to the nerf. Was mindblowingly overpowered back then, and is probably not all bad right now. Got no base for assessment.


Avatar's Symbol

Haven't seen it in ages.

Namtar's Ward

I'd prep this thing any time I was going for a DP string. Also, if the lvl catapult bonanza among the other preps (I'm glaring at the potions) ever got culled, and if Platemail and Martyr Wraps were brought down from auto-prep lvl, i'd be beelining for this thing just for the "skip the first few levels" perks. I don't think it's bad, just that other stuff is doing it's job. Except that's probably a good thing, as it's supposed to not have a job, being a VICIOUS reward and all.

Sensation Stone

Either what Darvin said, or what I've been begging for for ages - make it chap shop item. I've bought conversion fodder before, I'd gladly do it again, especially since CP lost quite a bit. Not too sure, these days.
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Re: Thoughts on Items

Postby Zalminen on Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:02 pm

I use Pendant of Mana, Battlemage Ring, Platemail and Martyr Wraps often, Crystal Ball sometimes, Troll Heart never.

Haven't unlocked Balanced Dagger, Avatar's Symbol or Namtar's Ward yet.
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Re: Thoughts on Items

Postby gjaustin on Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:57 pm

I disagree on the Balanced Dagger.

It's a wonderful find in any dungeon where you can end up struggling to get experience due to monster availability (e.g. Ick Swamp, Cursed Oasis, etc.). It's also pretty great for Crusaders.

Yeah, if you find it after level 4 or so, it isn't any use. But there's a lot of items like that.
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Re: Thoughts on Items

Postby Darvin on Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:07 pm

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Re: Thoughts on Items

Postby The Avatar on Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:53 pm

I disagree on the sigil. I've used it as a level 8 when fighting a boss. Between burning and the sigil you can have equivalent regen of monsters 2 levels higher.
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Re: Thoughts on Items

Postby Darvin on Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:07 pm

Perhaps for a rogue, but unless you have a massive attack bonus the thing is a net-wash for regen-fighting by the mid-levels and a drain by the higher-levels.

Take, for example, a 5th level character fighting a 30 damage monster (no resists or reduction in play). Without the sigil it takes 6 tiles to recover the damage, with it you require 5. Over the course of revealing 30 tiles, this is the difference between 5 hits with the sigil and 6 hits without. If your attack bonus is 1.3 (reduced to 1.1 by the sigil), the net benefit of the sigil is only about a 1.5% improvement to your overall regen game, which is effectively zero. Unless you have improved attack bonus, the sigil actually weakens your regen game at level 6 and above.

By the 10th level, fighting a 110 damage monster (again no resists or reduction), the sigil's additional healing is almost negligible and you need 10 tiles instead of 11 to fully heal. In order for this to counteract the loss of 20% attack bonus, your attack bonus would have to be at least +110%. This is a very high number that's essentially the domain of humans who also are stacking items or class benefits for additional attack bonus.
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