Broken Transmuter

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Broken Transmuter

Postby Dreamdancer on Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:15 am

In some cases the Transmuter is badly broken.
Expending all ressources i was able to get around 420 damage at lvl1. Killing ONLY the three bosses in Magma Mines is also possible (prepping Tikki Tooki and one need only a little scumming for WEYTWUT).
For both see: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2409&start=40
I also tried the Dragon Isle, but the Frist Born with more than 600hp was a little bit to much. Later i realised there is a far better approach, which should work everywhere. Buffing till one can one-shot a lvl9 (ressoures needed: most of the exploration tiles + 1-2 glyphs) worshipping Tikki Tooki and the boss should be easy. Two layer dungeons with black tiles give also a second buff for the final battle.

Why is this approach broken:
1) LEMMISI is the only glyph which is totaly spamable. With orc one gets only from the glyph around 5 conversion (didn't count, but in the end i had 15: all the glyph and some conversions from items).
2) The ability itself: Upon conversion one gets 5+mana damage. Even without mana this is a boost of 5 damage / 7 in case of orc

Possible ideas to fix this:
1) Exclude LEMMISI from the ability. Or make it so that the glyph needs a minimum mana cost.
2) Change the ability from 5+mana damage boost to mana damage boost.
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Re: Broken Transmuter

Postby Lujo on Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:25 pm

Anyone know what the offical status on the Transmuter was? He had a million itterations and this seems to be what was settled for because it was fun, but noone bothered to look too hard into it in case it turned out to be unfixably too strong?

Was there at any point a discussion?

Dreamdancer's right, in some circumstances he is broken, what do you guys think about the suggestions? Anyone have an informed opinion? I don't because they changed him around the time I was deep in Gaan'Telet and he used to crash it the fastest.
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Re: Broken Transmuter

Postby Darvin on Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:44 pm

To be honest, I've never been a huge fan of the new Transmuter and have just been happy that we finally have something that works. I've known for some time that he had some boss-spiking potential (though "all three bosses on Magma Mines" came as a surprise) but seeing as that's mostly applicable to dungeons that are straightforward if you know what you're doing I haven't given it much thought.

Has anyone been playing the Transmuter heavily? Or have we all just let him lie?
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Re: Broken Transmuter

Postby TigerKnee on Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:57 am

Shrug. The devs aren't even making "small" balance changes right now. Somehow I don't think "remake Transmuter AGAIN", which seems to be a Sisyphean task.
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Re: Broken Transmuter

Postby The Avatar on Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:15 am

I don't really play him at all. He's too weird, been through too many forms, and has a unusual play style that I don't like.
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I speak chaos.
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Re: Broken Transmuter

Postby Lujo on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:17 am

Oh, well, I sort of thought we could come up with a small change rather than a rework. I also figurend that if we can't we'd all shrug and say - oh, well, you can't balance all of them. (@Dreamdancer: Transmuter's been through about 5 iterations, all of them were either really broken, or really unusable, this one seemed to be somewhere in the middle)
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Re: Broken Transmuter

Postby Dreamdancer on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:55 am

@Lujo: Thanks for the info. I think i start with desktop dungeons somewhere in august, but played it only in the last couple of weeks more heavily (i only saw the rogue +50% dmg -> +40% dmg change).

I want to look this evening how human instead of orc would perform. Big Advantage with +x*10% damage is that it allows a far greater spiking, but on the other hand, one has less conversion.

Does anybody know how many tiles the average dungeon has? Think will count them, then one can calculated how many conversion one gets from LEMMISI alone.
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Re: Broken Transmuter

Postby The Avatar on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:08 pm

I think it's something like 20x20. So maybe 400 tiles.
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Re: Broken Transmuter

Postby dislekcia on Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:07 pm

400 - 9 = 391 unrevealed tiles in a regular dungeon, average of 28 extra tiles for subdungeons, excluding secrets.

Looking at this now - think the major problem is the stacking strength boosts making it possible to hit enormous damage outputs.
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Re: Broken Transmuter

Postby q 3 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:32 pm

Of course, the cheesiest (most efficient) way to play a Transmuter is to find BLUDTOPOWA and a fully-explored subdungeon, then go there and spam LEMMISI and BLUDTOPOWA until you're completely exhausted. Go to the surface and explore normally to recover, rinse, and repeat. At level 1, especially if you have the Bloody Sigil, you end up with a fairly absurd rate of CP growth.
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