[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 120: preg_filter(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
QCF Design Community • View topic - Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?


Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

All things Desktop Dungeons

Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby Galefury on Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:18 am

That's a nice idea, but would also be easy to abuse, for example with death protection (which Tikki hates, but the free dodge after DP might be worth it). Also by fighting low damage enemies to trigger the guaranteed dodge, then using that on the boss. But at least it would require healing before it can be done again. This allows for huge abuse with regen though: regen to just past the HP threshold, hit a low damage enemy to take you below the threshold and trigger the dodge, hit the boss (taking no damage), go regen just past the threshold, attack the low damage enemy to trigger dodge, etc. Also I think it's too complicated.

Maybe all dodging could be changed to work like the quicksilver potion, stacking up when you get hit and resetting when you dodge. Values would need to be adjusted of course, but this would provide some degree of reliability and allow interesting tactics without too much potential for abuse (desecrating TT's altar or using a really big sword to give low level enemies first strike and using that to stack dodge is the only abuse I can currently think of). Also there would still be some randomness in the mix, because if you don't use the stacked dodge you might lose it when you don't actually need it, and the more reliable it gets the more likely you are to lose it while stacking it up further.
Galefury
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:35 am

Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby Esoteric on Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:34 am

Yes, dodge is a random mechanic, but currently it's a 100% avoidable random mechanic. If it's not your cup of tea, don't play rogue and don't get dodge from Tikki. As it stands you can play Desktop Dungeons avoiding it entirely and not be at all the worse for it.

I don't mind it, myself. I never risk death, but it's a nice to sometimes be able to take down a higher level monster that needs 2 hits to kill you, but you need time enough for 3.
Esoteric
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:23 pm

Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby q 3 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:40 am

q 3
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby fall_ark on Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:10 am

User avatar
fall_ark
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:06 pm

Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby TigerKnee on Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:08 am

There's actually a strategy you can use with dodge, as long as you even have the slightest bit of dodge chance, AS LONG as you can survive more than 1 hit from whatever you're trying to kill.

Let's say you need 3 hits to kill a higher level enemy, but you can only manage to trade 2 blows as a Dwarf Rogue before you die.

Hit the enemy. Did you dodge?

No - Regenerate your health. Hit the enemy again.
Yes - Congratulations. You can now hit the enemy 2 more times at full health which means you can kill it.

Very much in theory you can use it to kill enemies that require 4 hits, 5 hits etc but of course your chance of dodging twice in a row is drastically lower. It IS possible though and if you pull it off you could get a giant slingshot.
TigerKnee
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:54 am

Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby q 3 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:51 am

The problem, of course, is that if you don't dodge then you need to regenerate - you are consuming a scarce resource and didn't get any benefit out of it. Typically as a Rogue you'll have the option of killing a monster one or two levels above you, which you can do without dodging (either because you have enough health or death protection to take a hit, or enough damage or enough fireballs to not need a second hit), or going after a monster two or three or four levels above you, which you can do only if you successfully dodge. Since dodging is so unlikely, even with Tikki Tooki's bonuses, you should pretty much always go with the lower level monster so as to conserve your regeneration. Even if taking the risky approach doesn't kill you outright, it does make you much more likely find that you haven't enough tiles to continue leveling up, or enough other resources to beat the boss.

I'm warming up to the idea of giving Rogues one or two guaranteed one-time dodges, since that gives them about the same benefit that they currently have but makes the player choose when to use it. More player choices means more player strategizing and less player-cursing-the-RNG, which means more fun. :)
q 3
 
Posts: 776
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby platypotamus on Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:19 am

platypotamus
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:18 am

Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby Galefury on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:16 am

Galefury
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:35 am

Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby TigerKnee on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:46 am

Why do all class features need to be strong though? Just playing Devil's Advocate I mean if we're talking about terrible class features I don't think anyone will be beating a vicious dungeon with Fighter anytime soon.
TigerKnee
 
Posts: 563
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:54 am

Re: Idea for a less random Dodge mechanic?

Postby Galefury on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:57 am

I agree that not all class features need to be good, as long as the class as a whole plays well. And yeah, fighters do kind of suck. Very little synergy with races, gods and dungeon features is the problem IMO. The bonuses themselves are actually pretty useful, except maybe the low level enemy scouting. Nobody cares about low level enemies, and they are plentiful enough anyway.

Dodge just doesn't work well with general DD gameplay IMO. If I cant count on it when I need it it's useless.
Galefury
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:35 am

PreviousNext

Return to Desktop Dungeons

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests