Spiked Spikes and Slashy Swords

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Re: Spiked Spikes and Slashy Swords

Postby Sidestepper on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:12 pm

The the topic of Whupaz, I only recently discovered that it replaces instead of augments your normal attack. For a lot of strategies, this makes Whupaz dead weight.
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Re: Spiked Spikes and Slashy Swords

Postby Lujo on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:20 pm

Which explains why Darvin's been noticing a dropoff in usefullness. And why I've started only prepping the dodge and whoopaz instead of dodge, reflex and whoopaz.
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Re: Spiked Spikes and Slashy Swords

Postby Darvin on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:59 pm

Indeed, the net benefit is very low for damage-stacking melee specialists (which is pretty much everyone who isn't a caster specialist). It probably should add your normal damage to its effect. This would be a good compromise that keeps it worthwhile.
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Re: Spiked Spikes and Slashy Swords

Postby q 3 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:49 pm

On the rare occasion that I even have it, I usually forget it until I've taken a few whacks on the boss anyway. So I can definitely say it's based on current, not max, HP, meaning those first few whacks aren't wasted but merely reduce the potion's effectiveness slightly.

Now I want them to reopen the special edition orders so I can request that my personal subdungeon contain an item that warns you anytime you forget that you have Whupaz (or Blue Bead, etc.). I'd pay $100 for that. :D
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Re: Spiked Spikes and Slashy Swords

Postby FDru on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:42 am

Minor issue, but the new Dragon Soul has no visual effect and sounds just like a potion when it activates. It basically confused the hell out of me the first time I used it; since I use hotkeys for spells, I thought I was hitting my potion button by mistake or something...
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Re: Spiked Spikes and Slashy Swords

Postby q 3 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:28 pm

Could we try increasing Vine Form to +5 or even +6 HP for a while and see how that works? It just seems so underpowered, considering how expensive it gets and so quickly. (Earthmother herself is somewhat underpowered, IMO, for most uses other than "last minute conversion/Entanglement/Plantation/Clearance" or "desecrate than quaff Burn Salve." I also had the thought of combining Entanglement into Greenblood so that she has room for another boon that's useful at low levels. Maybe something like +1 HP regeneration or poison immunity or...? That would be a much bigger change, though, obviously.)
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Re: Spiked Spikes and Slashy Swords

Postby Darvin on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:38 pm

Could we try increasing Vine Form to +5 or even +6 HP for a while and see how that works? It just seems so underpowered, considering how expensive it gets and so quickly.

That'd make it way too good for low-level level characters. The HP bonus is hard to make relevant for higher-level chraacters, but for 1st-4th level it adds up pretty quickly. I don't think there's room to buff it without making it too powerful for low-level characters.

I also had the thought of combining Entanglement into Greenblood so that she has room for another boon that's useful at low levels.

I've suggested this before; the devs didn't go for it. That said, I don't think she needs help specifically at any stage of the game. You're seriously under-valuing vine form as a low-level tool and with her conversion antics she's well-suited for any stage of the game.
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Re: Spiked Spikes and Slashy Swords

Postby Sidestepper on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:03 am

Vineform can work out very similar to Absolution. Six Vineforms by level 2 is easily accomplished and at the cost of less popcorn than 6 absolutions. If you are lucky with your plant spawns, you can sometimes get away with no popcorn sacrifices. I will sometimes prep Earthmother specifically to benefit from her 'penalty.'

Clearance on the other hand plays out like Bloodswell, but for magic instead of health and without the complicated effects of curse. That's pretty good.

Entanglement is functionally very similar to Tikki's Learning boon if used properly, and is practically free.

The problem is that Earthmother is extremely map dependent. I compared Vineform to Absolution, but Absolution clears hallways whereas Vineform cramps them. This is tolerable in some maps and disastrous in others. If you could prep ENDISWAL she would be good on any dungeon, but you can't so she isn't.

Her other issue is that unlike all of the other deities, Earthmother doesn't have a single enduring OMGWTFBBQ power that you can dip into her religion to seize. This is probably deliberate, since piety is so easy with her. All the same, I wouldn't mind some kind of 80 piety mega boon for her, but that's just a pipe dream.
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Re: Spiked Spikes and Slashy Swords

Postby Darvin on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:32 am

Entanglement is functionally very similar to Tikki's Learning boon if used properly, and is practically free.

The 5 piety is often worthwhile just for a first-strike finisher against a single monster, forget the fact that the effect hits the entire dungeon floor. Very good boon and one of the main reasons to hop into Earthmother's religion.


The problem is that Earthmother is extremely map dependent. I compared Vineform to Absolution, but Absolution clears hallways whereas Vineform cramps them. This is tolerable in some maps and disastrous in others. If you could prep ENDISWAL she would be good on any dungeon, but you can't so she isn't.

This I wholeheartedly agree with. Earthmother is a disaster waiting to happen on cramped maps.


Her other issue is that unlike all of the other deities, Earthmother doesn't have a single enduring OMGWTFBBQ power that you can dip into her religion to seize. This is probably deliberate, since piety is so easy with her. All the same, I wouldn't mind some kind of 80 piety mega boon for her, but that's just a pipe dream.

Spend 80 piety on clearance and it sure feels like a OMGWTFBBQ superpower. It's getting enough plants on the field to do this that's the challenge.
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Re: Spiked Spikes and Slashy Swords

Postby Lujo on Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:35 am

While all this is very true, Clearance maybe COULD restore up to 12 mana. Maybe.
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