Poison and Manaregen

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Poison and Manaregen

Postby Naoya on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:25 am

So, lately, I've been playing around a little bit with Poison, and noticed that its kind of hard to use it together with Burndayraz, which probably has something to do with the fact that manaregen stays constant .
This reminded me of the Alpha B2P, which doubled your manaregen on expense of your healthregen. While I personally prefer its current incarnation by far; however, I still keep wondering about that - manaregen.
We have monks and the Bloody Sigil, but as it stands now, we have nothing that boosts mana regen.

Now, I'm well aware that mana and health are two rather different things, in more ways than one - but I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this.
What would happen if there were a way to boost your manaregen? Would it be broken? Would it be crap?





Oh, and something completely unrelated: Outside of Assasin Bronze, we don't have a troll Boss. For every other Monster sprite* exists at least one boss, but not for Trolls.

*Not counting Pallete Swaps.
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Re: Poison and Manaregen

Postby Darvin on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:47 am

Oh, and something completely unrelated: Outside of Assasin Bronze, we don't have a troll Boss. For every other Monster sprite* exists at least one boss, but not for Trolls.

That's true, everyone else has a boss . Even the heroes have a boss appearance thanks to Evolvia's little doppelganger shtick. To be fair, there is the Havensdale Bridge mini-boss, and the taxidermist is full as it is.


One of the main reasons that I think we don't see a mana regen boosting effect is that there's so little granularity to be had. Mana regen is 1/tile currently, so even one notch upwards doubles your regen. That's just asking for trouble, and it's going to completely break Mystera and Binlor (for whom blackspace mana regeneration essentially converts into piety). If such an effect were introduced, it would require a pretty steep downside. At this stage, I'm not holding my breath.
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Re: Poison and Manaregen

Postby TigerKnee on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:58 am

Darvin wrote:
One of the main reasons that I think we don't see a mana regen boosting effect is that there's so little granularity to be had. Mana regen is 1/tile currently, so even one notch upwards doubles your regen.


Well, we could do something like "+1 extra mana regenerated every 10 tiles" or something, I suppose. Would be kind of annoying to try to count though.
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Re: Poison and Manaregen

Postby dislekcia on Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:16 am

We had a hard time putting together a convincing item for Trolls to drop. A "Troll Bridge" with a pic of a dental fixture seemed a little too over the top ;) - Plus Trolls arrived after most of the other enemies and we already had the full set of trophies we wanted for the endgame to work right.

Darvin wrote:One of the main reasons that I think we don't see a mana regen boosting effect is that there's so little granularity to be had. Mana regen is 1/tile currently, so even one notch upwards doubles your regen. That's just asking for trouble, and it's going to completely break Mystera and Binlor (for whom blackspace mana regeneration essentially converts into piety). If such an effect were introduced, it would require a pretty steep downside. At this stage, I'm not holding my breath.


This. Mana isn't as granular as health, so adding a total +1 per tile is incredibly overpowered and adding +1 per x tiles is annoying. We experimented with a lot of options for the Crystal Ball when we were redesigning it for the beta, we agreed that it was pretty much a god-level prep if it stayed the same as in the alpha.
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Re: Poison and Manaregen

Postby Naoya on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:16 pm

I see.
I guess this would make poison and burn shennanigans also a little bit insane , seeing as you'd suddenly need only 6 tiles to recover 12 mana. Old Apheelsik's comeback and stuff.

(Funfact: I never used the old Poison because I found it boring. The new one is significantly weaker, yet I like it more)

How about making a trollboss who appears as a super rare random boss? He could simply run away after being defeated, since he's so tough and a (literal) boss at running away, not dropping a trophy. Perhaps you get a bounty from the local people for chasing him away, so he doesn't mess up your economy.

Darn, I'd really like to have one fast regen boss, just for varietys sake.
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Re: Poison and Manaregen

Postby The Avatar on Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:27 pm

What about making it a subdungeon boss like Beorn Ufleoinn was? You could make him drop an item like "Troll Ring" (+1 regen per tile?).
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Re: Poison and Manaregen

Postby Leotamer on Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:24 am

I think I know how manaregen could work, although I am not sure if would be a good idea. An item that increases your manaregen by 1, if you have more then X (probably around 20) mana. Explaination-
-Elves, a class that is out shadowed by the gnomes becomes much more useful. Elves don't get much use and will give them a late game edge on Gnomes, where in theory their best power should lie as the idea is they have less short gain compared to the gnome, but greater long term effects.
-If the amount is high enough, the effect shouldn't proc until late game, when a good chuck of the map is already explored. Giving it good late game use by letting you safe some mana pots without giving you to much power at the start breaking the game.
-As for Binlor and Msyteria, while they would be powerful, this is going to be late game (Unless you really want to do a Elven Sorc for Mysteria) so the bonus bonds wouldn't make all the much differances until the boss which is a pretty fair trade out in my opinion.
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Re: Poison and Manaregen

Postby The Avatar on Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:22 am

Good, but Binlor and Mystera will be abusable anyways. Wizard, elven boots, beeline for the glyphs (after already worshipping Mystera and picking up piety the whole time. You should easily reach 20 mana.
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Re: Poison and Manaregen

Postby Darvin on Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:25 pm

First of all, an item that only functions for a very tiny subset of character builds is a bad idea to begin with. Most characters will never have a shot of reaching 20 MP. Second of all, an Elven Sorcerer can hit 20 MP very early and really start breaking things.
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Re: Poison and Manaregen

Postby Leotamer on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:54 pm

The number itself can be changed. But the general idea for it is that it is a late game item which makes elves more practical since their is normally not a reason to pick elf over gnome. Maybe it could be +X mana from outside sources, not including items, which would make Mysteria more powerful (Do keep in mind that it cost 30 piety for just 2 + mana and you would have to uncover alot of space in order to find all the mana powerups), this also gives a reason to pick more mana powerups over magnet fire, and the whole reason I suggested this item was to be indirect buff to elves.

(Avatar) While it is true you could rush this item to be proc, but you probably would be drained early game resources, which is a fair trade off for how I imaged the item. (Darwin) This should increase the characters who could use it (Practically all mysteria followers, due to pickups and magic, and all elves plus other all other classes if you get the bonus to mana pickups) while making the Elven Sorc not being all powerful.

Feel free to get is more critism, but I think this covers most of what you said.
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