Feeling Nostalgic

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Re: Feeling Nostalgic

Postby Sidestepper on Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:32 pm

That style of play is there. It doesn't get discussed as much simply because there isn't anything to discuss. "Try to find a random combo of items that works" isn't a very useful advice to someone who is struggling, but "prep x,y, and z" is.

Purist is viable all the way up to and including Vicious as long as you choose a reasonable class/race combo. I'd say the only dungeon where purist requires outrageous amounts of luck is VGT.
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Re: Feeling Nostalgic

Postby Bloggorus on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:59 am

People who like to play puzzle games will probably always want the flatter structure of the alpha. Success there was all about skill; if you were good enough to you could do anything right off the bat.

The beta is definitely a 'taller' structure, as in you need to build up resources outside of the dungeons to beat them. Maybe some of the freaky vets on these forums could beat everything purist but there's no way a regular mortal like me could do it. I still struggle with purist Normal sometimes.

I think the game has gone in a more progressive RPG direction and away from roguelikes, which will probably appeal to a wider audience.

The problem is that vets are past the point of enjoying these progression mechanics, they've unlocked everything. So their enjoyment from the game comes out of what they can do with the system, which is closer to the alpha version which focused on completion over lofty quest goals.
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Re: Feeling Nostalgic

Postby The Avatar on Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:08 am

Very true. Once you have everything you just set meaningless challenges to have fun! That and mess around with cool/unusual/OP combos. Heck, speaking of the alpha, I even o play it if I can't think of something to do in the beta...
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Re: Feeling Nostalgic

Postby Bloggorus on Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:16 am

I think this is the reason there was such a hoo-ha about infinite lockers in endgame. Vets want a return to alpha-style sandbox gameplay because they have such unusual goals (that also happen to cost them a lot of gold in retries and scumming).

I still think the devs will put something like this in in the last minute, but not until they have nailed the progression up until then. There's no point doing something to the end of the game if the start is unfinished.
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Re: Feeling Nostalgic

Postby The Avatar on Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:34 am

I hope so. I'd love a sandbox mode, but I'm not so sure they'll add it.
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Re: Feeling Nostalgic

Postby Bloggorus on Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:11 am

The impression i got from the discussion a while back is that the devs are aware of the issue, but have chosen to focus their attention on the tutorial and early missions, as well as the final polish. Kind of makes sense, seeing as they have been promising a codex and kingdom overhaul for two years.

I don't think it would be that hard to implement sandbox features for end game. Thats probably the reason people were frustrated, because it seemed like an easy fix to a veteran problem. It's not that they refused to do it, just that they had bigger fish to fry.

I think it will happen, it's just not as high on the devs priority list as some players would like.
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Re: Feeling Nostalgic

Postby Lujo on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:21 pm

Bloggorus wrote:I think it will happen, it's just not as high on the devs priority list as some players would like.


Which was my inital reaction to the whole mess, but as it turned out later it didn't seem to be anywhere on the dev's list, and from what I saw back there they didn't understand us at all (which led to heaps of frustration). Trying to guess where exactly the huge misunderstanding was (and the degree of misunderstanding was enormous, literaly, two sides repeating things in languages the other doesn't speak kind of deal), that's up for someone else to ponder... Anywho, that discussion's over, but about the alpha progression:

I'm not sure alpha was all about skill, it was way more random. You don't have to go crazy with preps in the beta to have a decent chance, but the whole testing process really weeded out many of the "set up and beat anything" features. They were present in the alpha, so IDK... I sort of think the beta has better learning curve (less "stumble upon discoveries" heuristic things). In the alpha, with it's low number of dungeons overall, a busted class like a monk ment quite a bunch of completions before they'd reflect your skill.

Not entirely sure...
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