VT, VGT, and badges in VGT

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Re: VT, VGT, and badges in VGT

Postby The Avatar on Wed May 08, 2013 2:27 am

How about one of the first 3 floors no exp?

Anyways, what is the problem with certain classes always vetoing the same effect (which I don't think would happen except with the vamp)? Seriously, no matter what class I'm playing I will veto a curse curse on Horratio's floor, a revealed Binlor and maybe Pactmaker, and other situational things.
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Re: VT, VGT, and badges in VGT

Postby Sidestepper on Wed May 08, 2013 3:29 am

I'm okay with certain classes always vetoing the same effect. It adds an element of control and planning to VGT that is sorely needed. Plus, there are some interesting gambits you could pull. A Vampire that gets the bloodless effect on a low floor might decide to grin and bear it and save the veto for something else.
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Re: VT, VGT, and badges in VGT

Postby Lujo on Wed May 08, 2013 10:24 am

Image

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Bloody Stupid TM Orc Monk can do VGT warmonger. He can do it more easily than this, since this is with 0 end-game specific bosskill. Well, technicaly, I dipped into TT at the very end for dodging and 2 levels of poison strike and to clear the 3 curses which hit me on the last floor. A previous run was going better, but I got overconfident and got stopped dead in my tracks by getting the curse boss on the last floor and having no way to remove 1 necessary curse stack (really unlucky there, otherwise I would've glouriously DP'd for the final hit off off yang's sword and Enllightmented to remove 3 curses with 0 popcorn on board :D)

Anywho, preps were:

GG, Sensation Stone, Transmutation Seal, Fewer Glyphs, Patches, RBS, Shop Scroll, Whoopaz, Reflex (save this thing untill you need it, it saves you a curse), Fortitude and Burn Salve. Bought another fortitude from the alchemist.

Had pretty much 0 problems with floors (one or two missteps like converting out of GG before checking the net floor out and getting hit by the multi-malus floor). Had 4 useless shops so I tributed 45 gold to get out of TT (had pactmaker unused too). No viper ward is a massive annoyance, but as long as you're in GG it's not a problem, and later I spent some time in Taurog (only picked up the helm, but was rolling so I took all other boons for the damage incerease).

I used the Long Rant :D And you can tell how bad my shops were if you see penance in my Inventory. Warmonger with awfull shops is pretty much the only time I'd consider picking it up (Possibly Miser).

You can certanly do it in other ways with monks prep wise, but I decidedly went for this because the stone strikes a nice balance between getting me some early gold and (very important) early +8 damage. Depending on luck it can go from "requiering carefull play" to "complete stomp".

It's sort of stunning to see something this powerful practicaly not being able to get off the floor (or past floor 1) in VT VGT. I didn't even go full cheeze, or scummed for anythign at all, and it felt pretty breezy.

EDIT: Concerning that I went for a test VT VGT run with the same approach. First floor binlor with troll + sensation stone. Stopped dead at a harmless malus floor 2. There's no way to fight magic damage monsters even with a 1000+ CP worth of damage boosts, without capped magic resistance. And there's no way to fight the phys damage monsters without capped phys. And this isn't "stomp magic damage monsters", it's "fight them at all". Only thing that could have a chance, IMO, is the alpha monk with 50% res both, a dragonshield and no base damage penalty.

I'm also beggining to wonder about Berserker - Magic damage monsters mess me up horribly. But there's more ways to get magic res up than phys and I seems to me he'd just get rolled by meatmen and goblins... (Tried 2-3 different ones, and this is exactly what happens -.-)
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Re: VT, VGT, and badges in VGT

Postby Lujo on Wed May 08, 2013 5:52 pm

Ok, very short question, srry for doublepost. Anyone ever did the math on what the "cap" is for VT monsteris in VGT? Or generally? I cooked up a scheeme involving paladins and scumming but if there's going to be 240 dmg warlocks in there then most likely no dice...

Well, Human Paladin of Binlor got to the 4th floor in VT mode before running out of fuel. Scummed for nothing so had nothing special, and even converted fireball which would've been very usefull. I say, it has potential, maybe not to beat the place, but to get quite far. This was first try and I allready broke my previous record by around 200% or so...
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Re: VT, VGT, and badges in VGT

Postby The Avatar on Wed May 08, 2013 8:40 pm

Interesting.

I don't think there is a cap. Also, I'm kind of curious as to what you did to get those resists with the monk? Binlor for knockback, stone form, and stoneskin?
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Re: VT, VGT, and badges in VGT

Postby Lujo on Wed May 08, 2013 8:54 pm

No, Monk magic resists were GG 3%, Dracul 15%, Patches 8%?, Taurog 15%, Cursed Seal 5% or thereabouts. Didn't touch binlor or the pactmaker. Pretty old school build, really...

But the VT Binlor Pally has problems with getting enough physical - but I'll refine that guy to his limits and see what he can do. Probably not much due to missing out on sanguine and bloodswell, but he at least had a fighting chance...
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Re: VT, VGT, and badges in VGT

Postby The Avatar on Wed May 08, 2013 9:34 pm

Yeah, but dealing with Horratio will be a problem. 25 phys resist+18 from dragon shield+10 from a scummed tower shield is 53. Is there anyway to get more?
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Re: VT, VGT, and badges in VGT

Postby Waldo0 on Wed May 08, 2013 9:47 pm

Awesome!!! :o :o :o :o :o
*F+Click* "WTF? Oh.. the monster had a 'Retaliate: Fireball'...." -2012 Waldo0
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Re: VT, VGT, and badges in VGT

Postby Lujo on Thu May 09, 2013 7:46 am

Waldo0 wrote:Awesome!!! :o :o :o :o :o


:) I'm both flattered and worried (about how good your strat is).

The Avatar wrote:Yeah, but dealing with Horratio will be a problem. 25 phys resist+18 from dragon shield+10 from a scummed tower shield is 53. Is there anyway to get more?


I've been doing maths on this and it's worrying*. Technicaly, I'm not sure if it's doable without drac, because sanguine is just that huge. On the other hand, because of how fat everything is, I'm not sure it's doable without Binlors damage boosts (optimaly +70% when you have both knockback and might on wall destruction).

*As far as being able to do an unintentionaly stupid possibly maltested VT run of VGT. As far as balancing the game goes the fact noone can do it is a good thing.

This is how it looks to me right now - 25 (start) + 18 (DS) = 43. With one patchs hit, every time I endiswall or take stonesking I hit the cap and get +30% damage, and this works untill I run out of walls. There's the cursed scroll for +5 more in there (48), with one patches hit it's 52, with a tower shield it's 53-58, but since I have no use for binlor piety once walls run out I just have to find pactmaker in time and I'd probably hit the cap. The cap is "only" 65% so wheter even that works depends on when monsters top increasing in power.

However, only paladin can't get screwed over by binlor, especialy once you pick patcmaker up.

On the other hand, getting you magic resists to hit the cap on time looks pretty much impossible without binlor (or scumming). With binlor it's - 18 (DS) + 4 (1 patches hit, unreliable) + 10 (two big Binlor boons) = 32. That means I have to take 11 earlyish stoneskins for the missing 33, but I have to take some of those just to have physical capped at times. Elven boots would help here. And there is the scroll if I run into it.

And once I run out of exploration it's done.

If I go with Drac I'd have to scum for pactmaker, take consensus for blood shield and I'd pretty much capped with physical, but only at 38% magic unless I also scum for elven boots (scumming for the correct floor costs a lot of kingdom gold). I'd also be down a potential 70% damage, Halpmeh would be useless if I want piety, and generaly I don't know how that would work out. I don't really see myself winning with binlor, but I don't see myself getting off the ground with Drac.

A really, really unorthodox thing might work, and is probably worth trying out - Prepping EM with monk, and scumming up Binlor. More walls for when you swap, and you also use all your mana to create as many walls as humanely possible, stone 5 guys for 50 piety, convert to Binlor, desecrate EM (prep alchemist to buy aditional salves) and then if you can get through a few floors pick up what you need if you find it. You probably won't have nearly enough damage, but it might even work. I've tried it before, but never managed ot get it off the ground in regular VGT, maybe I just wasn't doing it right.
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Re: VT, VGT, and badges in VGT

Postby Lujo on Thu May 09, 2013 1:32 pm

Just broke the record again - EM into Binlor Gorgon was down to floor 3 at lvl 7 (2nd floor was no-xp). Had max magic res and 56% physical (PM 2nd floor). Imawaling up a big bunch of walls before you go binlor is pretty good. Built in poison strike, built in deathgaze immunity and first strike that goes through RBS does wonders. I screwed up by getting myself pointlessly punished by binlor, otherwise I couldv'e gone really far with this (and if the monster stats capped out at any reasonable point I could have even had a shot at winning).

EDIT: A second attempt went significantly less well, so I must've in fact been lucky with the first one, or did/had something I didn't notice as important. Can't tell what, though, as I've messed up in several ways too, and I still had resources to burn and only crashed due to a stupid missplay.
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