Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Sidestepper on Sun May 05, 2013 3:50 am

I finally got a chance to experiment with this a bit. I think the way to go is to Titan Guitar down the whole level and then explore the whole map at 1st level. In doing so, you'll earn enough EM piety to almost literally fill the entire map with plants, and you'll still have enough mana left over to rearrange the map with WEYWUT/Fireball/ENDISWAL. It's nice to have all of the piety generation and usage over and done with at the beginning, and you don't have to worry about accidentally healing monsters when rustling your plants. I'd say gain one or two levels from petrification alone, and then start blasting a level 9 or maybe even the boss. Pactmaker is very nice here. I actually used Spirit Pact!

Playing around a bit more, I'd say the way to do this is very similar to how you play the Acid Caster. There's enough piety to fill the board entirely with plants, probably several times over, so worry less about plant/piety efficiency and more about getting utility. I'd recommend taking 5 hits of Vine Form and 10-13 hits of Greenblood before spam clicking Entanglement and filling the board. The Greenblood significantly improves your plant/damage ratio, and Vine Form is handy during the set up, allowing you to push midlevel meatmen around and clear statues as you explore.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Sidestepper on Sat May 11, 2013 11:28 am

Here's a bit of endgame fun for people that have the VICIOUS artifacts. Lots of you have already done this, but I've never seen it explicitly mentioned before. The idea is to combine a Warlord, Namtar's Ward, Reflex, Quicksilver, Scahdenfreude, Vineform, Clearance, and Entanglement for an outrageous number of free hits. It's a little bit like what Lujo was doing with Rogues to get 1st level boss kills, but not as extreme and no requiring any luck.

The craziest version is the Orcish variant. You explore the map, racking up Earthmother piety as you go and tossing it all back into Vineform. Convert anything you can get your hands on. When you're ready, kill the biggest monster you can find. Assuming HARD or easier, this should be a 9th level monster. Orcish damage is an incredible force multiplier at first level. You will get an outrageous number of hits:

1: Quicksilver dodge
2: Reflex strike. If your target has first strike, be sure to take an Entanglement boon first so that Reflex works properly
3: Tank one hit on natural health. If you can't do this, you didn't take enough Vineform or you need to find a monster with less damage. Settle for an 8th level if you have to.
4: Use your precast death protection
5: Cast CYDSTEP and quaff Schadenfreude
6: Cast CYDSTEP again off of the Schadenfreude mana
7: Use Namtar's Ward
8: Use Clearance (possibly more than once)
9: Finish with an Entanglement

The guaranteed IMAWAL is great here. That first kill will put you up to level 6. From there, stomp the remaining 9s and 8s and then get the boss. This approach works well on open maps and runs into trouble on cramped maps, where you can get easily cut off by your own plant spam. Shifting Passages is probably the best possible map for this strat, since the map starts out so open and you will complete it with so few kills.

For a more traditional game, take an elf. Convert as hard as you can, aiming for 20 mana for double CYDSTEPs, or 25 mana for a CYDSTEP per mana potion. You won't be able to get the outrageous 1st level kill like an orc can, but you will be able to knock out a 3 or 4 without using your potions. You'll also use up less exploration getting started and will need much less Vineform to be functional. You'll also get double the power out of your Schadenfreudes. This is a good approach on cramped maps where massive plant spam isn't a good idea.

I took the elf variant to VHoS and it worked first try. I even got unlucky and failed to hit 20 mana (the glyphs were all in a remote corner :x ), which effectively wasted my racial advantage, so there's a lot of room for error. This is one of the few melee builds that doesn't rely on resistances to survive, so you can actually fight the Steel Golems. You will need to be able to clear your curses near the end, so that you can exploit the interaction between Vineform and The Indomitable's corrosion ability, but that's easy to arrange.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Lujo on Sat May 11, 2013 11:55 am

(Applause! :))

If I may - unless namtar's ward is absolutely required, and it's probably not, bringing in the titan guitar makes it work on cramped maps as far as geograpy is concerned (except the "islands" maps where the natural chokes don't consist of destructible walls). This also means that you don't need a vicious reward, so it puts it in reach of more people.

Tbh, even if you don't take it to extremes, EM Warlord is one of the better warlords around.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Lujo on Sun May 26, 2013 11:31 pm

I think I may have found one:

Orc Priest of... Binlor!

Priests have always had one* problem for me and that's the lack of damage. You also have to explore quite a bit looking for undead** which are your means to an efficent level up. And the huge refill which goes from "at least you have something" to "omg wtf bbq" in case you build up enough resistances which you start with 0 of.

Has anyone tried simply prepping binlor? You bust walls while you explore and pick up +40% knockback and +30% per wall destroyed. Coupled with the +30% from the attack boosters, thats +200% base against undead (if that's how it works). If the boss is magic damage - spam stoneskins while you level. If the boss is physical damage - spam stoneskins while you fight him. I'd even bring a zombie dog along so I'm sure that the trickiest boss is undead, but otherwise a keg of health. Plus you're always an Orc with a Pissorff handy. It's all so obvious, yet I don't remember ever hearing about it.

(*Apart from being hugely mislabeled warriors and detrimental to getting people to learn about gods in general, ofc)
(**And this)
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Wargizmo on Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:23 am

Strategy I used for handily beating the 3 vicious dungeons and the boss:

Class: Assassin
Race: Gnome (elf can also work)
Essential Preps: Tikki Tooki, Amulet of Yendor (50xp, 1 use, you can get it from the naga city)
Other useful preps: extra mana, extra gold, transmutation scroll, +2 sword (transmute it)

* pop the yendor amulet straight away to hit level 5
* worship tikki tooki and take Tikki's edge level 1 (I tribute a couple of times so I can afford it)
* kill low level mobs and take tikki's edge level 2 when you can afford it.
* keep 1-shotting until you hit level 10, pick up dodge and maybe poison1 along the way.
* once you hit level 10, pick up fireball buy up all the caster items, convert everything else.
* change to one of the other gods, Mysteria and Earthmother are the best ones, try to get 100 piety before converting.
* fireball down the boss(es), use fireball + poison in conjunction with the remaining unexplored space as well as all your mana pots and other god(s) benefits.
* win


A note on converting from tikki to other gods

Mysteria:
Take the 1 extra mana and cheaper fireballs first. Flames and weakness can be useful but situational, take refreshment before you convert any glyphs. Sometimes you'll need to swing your sword so flames might not be worth it (for example in the Naga dungeon where you have some magic resist level 10s at the end it's better to hit them).

Earthmother:
Take a few greenblood shots at the start if the boss is in the same room, the corrosion will make your fireballs do more damage. Otherwise save piety for clearance. Use plantation + clearance when you run out of mana.

Pactmaker:
If you think you'll be low on piety later then don't take any pacts and save it for consensus; otherwise pop spirit pact straight away to maximise any conversions you make.

Glowing Guardian: Only convert to him at the end; stick with tikki or another god until you've used up all your mana pots. He's only really useful for a few shots of protection but it's better than nothing. You can convert your health potions for piety, take humility if there's enough mobs lying around to get you back to level 10.

JJ: I haven't used him with this strategy yet, but I imagine you'd be able to take petition and earn enough piety for 1 level of extra mana pretty easily, the 3 mana is worth giving up a potion for. Save the rest of your piety for last chance if you ever need it.

Binlor/Taurog/Dracul: Hopefully there are better options available, these guys won't do much for this strategy
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby booooooze on Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:29 pm

Dracul does great things for any strategy.

This is a great guide to Assassins + Tikki, though. Can be done without Yendor if you go goblin. (Just convert a glyph you don't want to get to level 2, and tribute enough to get that first level of Tikki's edge).
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby The Avatar on Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:28 pm

I don't know. I think I have the ultimate version of this (it beat vicious vicious NL, vicious vicious DL, and vicious vicious DI).

Goblin Assassin
Preps: Dragon Soul or Battle Mage Ring, Potion Kit (Mana, Schadenfreude, Whupaz, Quicksilver), Extra Cash, Quest Items or Shop Scroll, Extra Glyphs, MA
Strategy: Explore the entire map racking up Mystera piety and POPCORN BOWL EVERYTHING. Take Mystic Balance and 2 magics at least, and make sure you end with at least 50 piety for conversion. Start fireballing the boss at level 1, then convert out to TT if possible, but any god works. Then just use the piety you get from kills, level ups, etc to further boost your character. Use your goblin glyphs for as many level ups possible and always use all of your mana fireballing the boss. Then switch to monsters. Fireball till the boss dies. This shouldn't cost any potions. Use potions and more level ups to kill the other boss, along with diving healing. The ultimate lucky draw is MA -> TT (for leveling) -> Drac (SANGUINE!).

EDIT: Buy all mana items (mage plate, dragon soul, battle mage ring, and witchaloak pendant or piercing wand when applicable). You may have to scum for the piercing wand for dungeons with bosses with lots of magic res.
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby booooooze on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:49 pm

That's a pretty ridiculously strong one. I like it. Reminds me of the old MA boon, I don't remember the name, Mana Burn? All piety goes to damaging everything? Explore the whole map and then hit everything for 100 damage.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Naoya on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:59 pm

booooooze wrote:That's a pretty ridiculously strong one. I like it. Reminds me of the old MA boon, I don't remember the name, Mana Burn? All piety goes to damaging everything? Explore the whole map and then hit everything for 100 damage.



Flat WHAT.

... Did you still gain exp with that? Whoah.

Sometimes I really wish there would be a complete changelog where everything with all its incarnations listed. I'm the kind of person who loves digging through such stuff.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby booooooze on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:13 pm

It didn't kill anything. Just reduced them (and you) to 1 hp (if they were 100 or lower). But if you had first strike, or a mana potion, you could go kill a lvl 6? or so and then just mop up the map.

This Avatar strat really is similarly strong, though. To think that I never used to use goblins (still prefer not to, frankly, but the goblin assassin is truly god-like).
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