Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby dislekcia on Thu May 23, 2013 11:01 am

JayPlaysIndieGames wrote:WOW
Okay I just finished the first wizard challenge and now I understand why everyone has been getting on me about not using my glyphs enough.

I experimented with IMAWAL, GETINDERE, and ENDISWAL in this one and oh man have I been under using them. IMAWAL seems particularly amazing, but I can't believe that the dodge chance from repeating GETINDERE stacks! ENDISWAL also seems like a great way to take out enemies that are way out of your league.

Anyway I feel like after that run, combined with the advise I've been getting here I will be playing much nicer with the glyphs that I get :)


Happy designer glow :)
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Darvin on Thu May 23, 2013 4:35 pm

Wizard Bronze is a particularly well-done challenge. I'd say it's probably the best on the entire roster.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Thu May 23, 2013 9:01 pm

@JayPlaysIndieGames: Are you going to post your class challenge runs? Despite not being on the dungeon screen, they are a very important part of the desktop dungeon experience and very good teaching tools.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Thu May 23, 2013 9:45 pm

The Avatar: Yes definitely. The one mentioned above will go up later today.
I plan on recording EVERYTHING I do with desktop dungeons. Including the puzzles when I get around to them, I will be putting completed challenges and puzzles in a separate playlist though probably.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Lujo on Thu May 23, 2013 11:22 pm

JayPlaysIndieGames wrote:The Avatar: Yes definitely. The one mentioned above will go up later today.
I plan on recording EVERYTHING I do with desktop dungeons. Including the puzzles when I get around to them, I will be putting completed challenges and puzzles in a separate playlist though probably.


I admire your ambition and envy whoever's paying your equipment. Don't get disenhartened when you figure out just how incredibly huge the game actually is :)
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Darvin on Thu May 23, 2013 11:51 pm

Heheheh, I'm waiting to see his reaction when he first encounters a vicious dungeon.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Fri May 24, 2013 1:52 am

Or even a gold challenge. I still remember mine it was something like "OMGWTFISTHISNOFAIRYUSOCHEAP!".

Video 8: The other classes are greyed out because you selected a quest that requires you to use fighter and berserker, hence only fighter and berserker will be lit up. If you selected the dungeon they all would be choosable. Ack! Too many same level kills! Hopefully the wizard bronze taught you to use glyphs. You left that WEYTWUT there and killed lev ones. Lujo posted popcorn bowling, and seriously use it. WEYTWUT slows guys, which works like first strike. You could have used it on the goblin and goat. Seriously, WEYTWUT and GETINDARE are magic. Fighters in desktop dungeons are not actually fighters. You should always use glyphs especially BURDAYRAZ, WEYTWUT/GETINDARE for first strike, and WONAFYT/WEYTWUT for popcorn bowling and slowing monsters. At the very least convert the glyphs you don't use. You said killing a level four wouldn't hurt you at level four. This is not true! As long as there is a better kill you can get and a way for you to conserve (and hopefully slow) a same level monster, killing it will hurt you.You could have killed the zombie at level 4. Two burns, one attack, regen 1 tile, and attack again. Quick tip: If you can kill a monster with an attack and a fireball rather than two attacks it saves tiles because regen hits both at once. 6 tiles down in both cost 6 tiles, while 12 tiles down in 1 costs 12 tiles. See? Scariness is probably a problem with the dieties as of now. Without the wiki or experimentation it sucks. The guardian in Taurog's area says "Magic Immune". Thus, you can't use you're fireball. Monster regeneration is one per tile per level. If you do more damage at the same level you will always be able to kill a monster with enough tiles. Check out how many tiles you can regen before you start. You don't want to explore too many tiles and be forced to hit him twice to remove a death protection. Also, as a quick detail, death protection slightly reduces the damage of a monster when broken. Taurog is probably the worst god late game, but he is ridiculously powerful to new players. Enjoy. WAIT, DON'T CONVERT GETINDARE! Yeah, when you do wrong stuff for a god it removes piety. The gods only go ape on you if your piety drops below 0. Spells only cost -2 and kills are +4 or +8 for someone with magic attack. Sorry, no kill on the level 9. It's only 15% magic res. You should probably not have leveled to level 8. Go only to level 7 and then get TWO mid fight level ups! Nice job killing off the goblins. As soon as you get the shield you should have cleaned up remaining popcorn for piety so you can afford unstoppable fury. Use your death protection instead of a potion, because you can sell potions. Overall, not a bad run.

I don't know if you read these and they take a good bit of time. Do you read them? If so, please tell me, because otherwise I just won't write them. Frankly, it's fine either way.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Fri May 24, 2013 3:42 am

Lujo: I mainly use free downloadable software equipment. I haven't found good sound recording yet though I recently switched to Audacity. I also use FRAPs (the only thing I paid for) and virtualdub. Recording does take a bit of HD space though. So yeah I buy my own equipment

Darvin: Yes I live in great fear of the difficult dungeons as they are coming sometime (hopefully soon)

The Avatar: Yes I read all of them and find them very helpful. Though I don't read them while rewatching the episode so they are a little hard to follow I get the gist of what I am doing wrong and right. I liked what you did at the end of that first one where you boiled down the main points for me. Just because you don't see an immediate response from me or an immediate improvement in play don't think that I am not listening, also keep in mind some episodes are pre-recorded. I even take some notes from you guys :)
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Fri May 24, 2013 7:03 pm

Oh and I say will show you guys everything: That is as long as I can record it. I've been having problems recording audio lately and I hope that is fixed.
So the part 10 run starts after a few fail runs that I either died in or quit in the middle because of recording issues.
Don't worry, generally I will show off the fail runs the only reason these didn't go up was due to recording problems.

Also part 10 is like an hour long, which is crazy to me. Sorry about that, but sometimes I need time to think, and it took everything I had to do as well as I did on that mission. . .
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Sun May 26, 2013 5:50 am

Okay here comes four overdue note-walls.

Wizard Bronze: Precasting BICEPS is good, and good job starting to precast stuff, but you should use WEYTWUT to popcorn bowl too. Berserk increases damage by 50%. Start thinking about burning more. Your two BURNDAYRAZes will due an extra 2 damage and then 4 for my attack after them. Killing things just one above your level is fine. Two levels above without items or conversion is difficult. You buy an item immediately. Unless it is the one item you have been looking for the whole game, don't buy till you've seen a couple shops. YES! IMAWAL FOR LOW LEVEL ENEMIES! GOOD JOB! PISORF is good against magic resist guys, but I don't use it much either. Precast IMAWAL if you want the bonus exp. Quick tip: As usual, always pick on first strike enemies (because they don't work as popcorn) so petrify goblins and gorgons (especially gorgons: death gaze is the bane of popcorn eaters). Very well done on the 3+ level kill. Quick secret about IMAWAL: there is one gold under each statue, so when casting ENDISWAL for resistance pick a statue. One thing is before the boss you should convert all unnecessary glyphs you won't use in-fight. That is about 4 different glyphs. You could have had one or two extra fireballs. You shouldn't use a potion on the boss when you have a mid-fight level up. That was a very impressive one. Even though the monsters have lame stats in bronze you did very well. You're learning impressively fast. You can kill the level 10 berserkers at level 4 or 5 with a mid-fight level up. You used IMAWAL a bunch, but don't let that get in the way of mid-fight level ups. You must balance your popcorn. Remember attack before fireball against berserking enemies. Great job!

Video 9: The thief is a great class. It is the ultimate generalist. Anything--any strategy--works with him. You chose 10% physical resist over 10% damage. 10% damage is probably better unless you are stacking resistance. WEYTWUT swaps and adds the slow effect. The slow effect shows 3 things: removes blink and counter: fireball (this is minor), give you first strike (an okay alternate to GETINDARE), and gives +1 exp. So just take popcorn and swap it out of your way. Then, when you harvest it you get extra exp. I probably would have destroyed BICEPS instead of WONAFYT. If you keep casting it you will get +10 exp for mid-fight level ups from level 1's alone. You said IMAWALing slowed guys is less useful. This is debatable. If you IMAWAL a slowed monster it gives you the 1 exp for it being slowed when you petrify it. If you don't have fireball and have full mana for a fight, precast BICEPS before every hit to do extra damage. It's quite effective as long as you remember to save enough for GETINDARE. The third best petrification targets are meat boys, because they have extra hp. Kill as many 1+ or same level kills before you try a mid-fight level up kills so you save as much popcorn as possible. If you can't precast both GETINDARE and BICEPS, always pick BICEPS. Remember, fights will take less hits than the predictor says if you constantly precast BICEPS it will take less hits than it says. You're creating good habits when you precast stuff, but once it becomes automatic, start double checking whether it is actually worth it (especially for BICEPS if it won't take off an extra hit or two, don't use it). The Glowing Guardian should probably only be worshiped immediately or after you use all of your potions (worship, then take as much divine healing as you can). NEVER CONVERT BURNDAYRAZ! BICEPS and/or IMAWAL are worse, especially IMAWAL later in the game. BURNDAYRAZ has incredibly potential. It makes for great regen fighting and just in-fight damage. You don't mind a waste? That is a bad mentality to have. You should be incredibly focused on efficiency and waste reduction, even too much so. You need to be pedantic about it. It will help extremely later on. I'm really not sure why they walled in that altar. It doesn't make much sense... Remember to cast GETINDARE if you have enough mana before you level up. You seem to have forgotten that your quest was to kill the level 8 and 9 enemies. enemies. You were blatantly wasting exploration that you could have used to remove one or two of them. You do need unstoppable. It's for the quest. Don't forget! NEVER FORGET THE QUEST REQUIREMENTS! There's nothing sadder than putting 30 minutes into something and realizing you need to do it all again. There is no reason to buy things before you leave. That was a much better run then before. You really have started using glyphs, and it is great. Do the hello, gnomes and halflings puzzles. They give great items.

Video 10: Dracul is the best god. He is versatile, great for everyone, and powerful. Pop-up is too long for me. I like being able to do runs in 5 minutes. Agree on the wasted space on that. I'm pretty sure they're putting the advisor there later. The monk is the best class in the game. His potential is OFF THE CHARTS. You have to do a human monk and once you get the orcs it will be much easier. The good thing about monks is they teach you to regen fight. Monks are totally built for it. The corrosive creepers are there for a certain subdungeon that wants you to collect a certain item that they drop. Do that subdungeon. Monster regenerate 1 per level per block, and you regenerate 2 per level per block, and they do half damage to you. Seriously, it's really simple. Monsters regenerate their level and you do too (except monks regenerate twice their level). You're right, you do have a tough start. The pendant of health is a very bad item for the monk. You want damage way more than health. Curse removes all of your resistance until you clear it. For ever hit you take it adds a level and when you kill the monster it adds an extra level. Killing a non-curse-bearing monster it removes one level. It's a nasty side effect. For a monk, health potions are not very useful. Blackspace is much, much better. Using one to get you off the ground is very effective. Remember, monks only have physical resistance so avoid warlocks and magic attackers. There is an attack booster on your screen that you ignore. ALWAYS GRAB THEM IMMEDIATELY (especially for the monk)! You do not need to precast GETINDARE before every hit. You always need extra physical resistance. The tower shield is one of the best buys for a monk (that and the fine sword). Since the monk has double regen you should quickly be able to out regen 2-5 level higher targets, especially meat men--the ultimate monk target. If you want a good monk target, pick a meat man 2+ levels higher. You tend to gloss over them because of their exorbitant hp, but their attack is so bad they make for great monk targets. You picked a level 5 zombie over a level 5 meat man. THAT IS A BAD CHOICE. Always, always, always, always pick the meat man. Good job remembering the fireball. Don't fireball when you can use GETINDARE. When in doubt, use popcorn and leveling instead of potions. AGAIN! YOU KEEP PICKING THE ZOMBIE! PICK THE MEATMAN! You keep fireballing where GETINDARE is both more efficient and adds dodge. Once you believe you will lose you seem to take the "whatever, I'll lose anyways" approach. This will only lead you in a downwards spiral. Never give up, it makes things worse. As a monk, you really need conversion fodder. You should convert GETINDARE, it is pretty lame for a monk. What it seems like is all these gods are scaring the crap out of you. Gods are good. I promise. Do their puzzle packs, it will seriously help you with them and make them a whole lot less scary. They just require careful play. The golem resisted your IMAWAL. It was the 50% magic res. The bugger got lucky. Until you hit the big Worship button, nothing will happen. Also, none of the gods are mean when you join them. They occasionally give you piety though. Sanguine is probably the best thing in the game. GET IT. It gives you hp and piety for every blood pool. Then use that piety to get more levels of it, so it gives you more piety and more healing for each blood pool. It is ridiculous. The blood hunger boon is lying. It only lowers your max resists by 20% (unless they changed it). Lifesteal is good for monks, but losing the resistances is too painful, unless you don't want to get max resists. You do not have to kill weaklings to lifesteal. In fact, you shouldn't kill them, that way you can reuse them. Mind you, you won't actually heal when you hit most monsters, it just subtracts the healed damage from the damage you take. You keep forgetting GETINDARE. Only do mid fight level ups if it uses popcorn and doesn't require potions or healing the boss. Blood curse is (almost) always worth taking before the boss. You should have take it and then nailed 2 levels of sanguine (which is much much better than lifesteal). You seem to have this great belief in needing high levels for boss kills. You could have nailed the boss without potions at level 7 rather easily using sanguine and lifesteal. Poison goes away on level up. Remember that. Your use of a mid-fight level up was... interesting. It might have been better to just save the regen space. I'd have to do the math. You are getting piety from drinking blood. Use it to highten sanguine, not lifesteal. Sanguine is better, and it doesn't throw away your necessary resistance. Blood swell neglects to mention it adds a level of curse (temporarily wrecking your resists). Make sure you have popcorn to get rid of that nasty curse. Dang! The frost roots are under the plants! That was a good salvage. It just shows you never to give up! Oh yeah, I recommend using classic. It saves about 20 minutes and is much more natural for regen fighting.

Fighter Bronze: Interesting. I almost never use dwarves. I'm not actually sure it's ideal. You should try to get a ridiculous amount of exp on this dungeon. Try slowing all of the goats, then IMAWALing the slowed ones to fight the gorgons. You can reach level 9 or something like that. WONAFYT does give extra exp. It slows monsters and that gives 1 exp if you kill them in one shot or petrify them. You don't really need higher level kills in this dungeon. It's practically impossible without the DP. Remember slow gives you first strike. You can WONAFYT a same level monster for first strike.Yeah, it's late and you have the general idea. Yeah, lots of errors, but it's a bronze challenge. You're fine. Good job, I'm ending the commentary now.

KEY NOTES: Once it is automatic, make sure precasting is actually effective. Double check whether you are usingKeep working on regen fighting and mid fight level ups. Use WEYTWUT and WONFYT to popcorn bowl, and balance your use of IMAWAL so you have popcorn for mid fight level ups. Gods aren't scary, just do their puzzle packs. It helps sooooo much.

Basic monk tips: Prep Taurog. He is made to give you damage and resists. Guess what is best for a monk: damage and resists. It was made to be. With extra damage you will be able to get high resists and you will be way more effective. The best items are damage and resists.

Also, I'd recommend classic. It makes for faster gameplay and pop-up needs some improvements (i.e. graying what you've already precasted or can't afford, moving it out of the way of the fight, etc.).
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