Big cheer for impending content & speculation!

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Re: Big cheer for impending content & speculation!

Postby Checkem on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:50 pm

Whoah, I totally support the Burn Viper boss idea for the southern swamp, whenever I'm doing a flamming dungeon, that's the one where I always play purist except for bet on boss because of how easy it is.
Also the thief needs a little a hell of a buff, I don't know about you guys, but I hate the Slime pit. Can't do it with the thief, but I accidentally did a purist fighter run that I had a really easy time with.
Could we list the dungeons that the thief has a lot of trouble with? Maybe that way it's easier to approach this.
Slime pit, Namtar's lair, and Demonic library for me. I think the thief can't deal with physical resist monster as well as the other classes? Maybe his first strike against a full health monster should have some degree of penetration?
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Re: Big cheer for impending content & speculation!

Postby Lujo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:19 pm

Checkem wrote:Also the thief needs a little a hell of a buff, I don't know about you guys, but I hate the Slime pit. Can't do it with the thief, but I accidentally did a purist fighter run that I had a really easy time with.


I don't think even the monsters IN the slime pit like the slime pit. Oh, well, I suppose I like it as a challenge. It's not that hard once you sort of figure it out, either.

Checkem wrote:Could we list the dungeons that the thief has a lot of trouble with? Maybe that way it's easier to approach this. Slime pit, Namtar's lair, and Demonic library for me. I think the thief can't deal with physical resist monster as well as the other classes? Maybe his first strike against a full health monster should have some degree of penetration?


Naah, I don't think it's a particular dungeon thing, it's more about the Thief himself. The thief was pushing the fighter out as a better generalist back in the day when the difficulty bar was rather prohibitively high, the thief had potions do full effect for both health and mana and the general approach to playing was "first thing you do is unlock Dragonshield". It was a silly state of affairs, so the worst offenders were nerfed (cydstepp, thieves, halpmeh, monks, sensation stone, GG, maybe a few other things). This was just to get us to even fiddle with other stuff, just to move these out of the way.

But as Darvin said, the recend trisword downsizing hurt the thief - the thief was nerfed because he was too good for a 1st tier class and making the fighter look bad. If you take away the dragon shield and trisword "on every run" meta, he isn't really overpowered. Making him potion jesus again might still be a silly idea (because it's easily broken with gnomes and halflings) but he could use a bit of a buff.

Or maybe he isn't bad at all? What DOES his "extra stuff" ability read as? How much more gold? How many extra shops? How many extra glyphs? I mean, I'm not having any troubles with him tbh, but I'm not going out of my way to pick him either...

The first ability is sort of throwaway though...
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Re: Big cheer for impending content & speculation!

Postby Darvin on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:59 pm

Or maybe he isn't bad at all? What DOES his "extra stuff" ability read as? How much more gold? How many extra shops? How many extra glyphs? I mean, I'm not having any troubles with him tbh, but I'm not going out of my way to pick him either...

Literally one extra pile of gold, one extra health potion, one extra mana potion, one extra health booster, one extra mana booster, one extra attack booster, and one extra glyph. Not sure about shops. It's actually a very good class feature.

If any class feature were to get buffed, it would be stabber.
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Re: Big cheer for impending content & speculation!

Postby squirrelnest on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:14 pm

About magic resist: any chance we could just make it so that the random spell fail cannot happen two times in a row? As in if IMAWAL fails, then yoyrs next cast is the same spell on the same monster it auto-succeeds?

Its a simple change that takes away a little of the randomness.

I always thought thief should get gold for killing lower level monsters. A pick-pocket type skill. I have no illusions that A) we could add a new class feature so late of B) that any class will have a 4th class feature. Still, as long as buffing the thief is being discussed...
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Re: Big cheer for impending content & speculation!

Postby Lujo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:22 pm

Darvin wrote:
Or maybe he isn't bad at all? What DOES his "extra stuff" ability read as? How much more gold? How many extra shops? How many extra glyphs? I mean, I'm not having any troubles with him tbh, but I'm not going out of my way to pick him either...

Literally one extra pile of gold, one extra health potion, one extra mana potion, one extra health booster, one extra mana booster, one extra attack booster, and one extra glyph. Not sure about shops. It's actually a very good class feature.

If any class feature were to get buffed, it would be stabber.


One extra pile of gold? I though it was more... I'll have to check the shop count too. It's a great feature non the less but sort of spread too wide. It's what's "carrying" him, though, and sort of always was - it's a bit like playing at a lower difficulty level.

Now that I think about it, the problem with stabber is that it doesn't really "fit" the theme - the other two are both generalist abilities. They let you get more worh out of the dungeon (the old potion jesus ability was really broken in that regard :D ). Stabber doesn't fit the theme.

Here's a fun idea that might also help with teaching regen fighting and popcorn bowling:

Stabber: 30% against a full health monster, +10% dmg to monsters with debuffs/burning on them.

If it's any debuff (slow, burning, corrosion) it would be really powerful, if it's just burning it'd work into the hybrid theme. Maybe someone has a better idea? (The problem with "any debuff" is that it would make a single shot of greenblood really good for the thief, and people would be slowing and wacking equal level stuff with wonnafyt. Burning seems like a nice idea, though).


squirrelnest wrote:About magic resist: any chance we could just make it so that the random spell fail cannot happen two times in a row? As in if IMAWAL fails, then yoyrs next cast is the same spell on the same monster it auto-succeeds?


I like this. :)
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Re: Big cheer for impending content & speculation!

Postby Waldo0 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:27 pm

squirrelnest wrote:I always thought thief should get gold for killing lower level monsters. A pick-pocket type skill.


I like this idea. His job is stealing, he should steal something!! :lol:
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Re: Big cheer for impending content & speculation!

Postby Lujo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:36 pm

That would be too good and newbies would be picking him to farm gold in a stupid way*. I know I would if I were a newbie. It's like having a built in gloves of midas which stacks with gloves of midas :D

*stupid because actually beatig dungeons gives you MORE gold.
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Re: Big cheer for impending content & speculation!

Postby Waldo0 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:24 am

Lujo wrote:That would be too good and newbies would be picking him to farm gold in a stupid way*. I know I would if I were a newbie. It's like having a built in gloves of midas which stacks with gloves of midas :D

*stupid because actually beatig dungeons gives you MORE gold.

If giving extra money would spoil the game balance, instead of stealing money,

Thief can receive a unique seal or a unique item to steal a item from the shops.

Surely, his class abilities should be modified by the new stealing ability.(Not just addition)

I don't know whether Thief is an under-power class comparing other classes, because his SURVIVOR-HOARDER abilities are pretty useful. BTW, I think RANGER is more suitable name with these abilities.

However, I just want to steal something as Thief!!! That is his job!! :twisted:

EDIT: How about making RANGER or HUNTER class with a ranged weapon. 8-)
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Re: Big cheer for impending content & speculation!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:17 am

The problem with shop related abilities is you are running to close to the tinker. What if in addition to all of the extra stuff he spawns he spawned an extra glyph. It would also make hybrid playing easier for him because you would have more chance to get hybrid fighting glyphs (APHEELSIK, HALPMEH, CYDSTEPP, etc).
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Re: Big cheer for impending content & speculation!

Postby Lujo on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:46 am

I think he already spawns an extra glyph.

I think he is actually fairly representative of a thief (of the burglar variety - he loots dungeon features :D)

My suggestion might've got lost in my verbose spam:

Make stabber give a minor bonus against debuffed or only burning opponents. Like a 10% bonus or maybe a small scaling damage boost in addition to the attack bonus on first hits. Easier to stab them when they stop drop and roll!
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