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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby Lujo on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:52 pm

It's just about where you want more ease - leveling or end spike. I tend to rush, blunder and speed through my leveling and then kitchen sink the boss to death (or piety spike him down) and potion spiking is nice there. Not to mention that some beyond end-game strats like Codex-Earthmother are sipplemented nicely by potions because you're powerleveling anyway. Some guys like to take their time with the map and reach the boss with a smooth endgame. And then there's guys who don't even potion spike the boss, because, well, that's just how they roll.

But if you do run into a keg in a subdungeon or something, by all means, go nuts. The level is probably beatable without that keg. If anyone's interested there's a story about why some vets I hold in high regard (and so should you! :D) have a different outlook on gnomes as opposed to halflings, it'd make a nice rambling lecture :)

inb4 rigteous reply from fellow vets about confusing poor newbies: At the beggingin of a kingdom (or playing career) you can't really afford to waste potions because potions is all you've got! So you can't kitchen sink the boss since there's nothing to kitchen sink him with. With gods in the mix, and item unlocks and stuff, you start to rely on gods for you end spike(s) and then potions become viable leveling supplements. So yelling at a noob to conserve potions is actually ethical, right and educational - but gnomes and halflings are a bit of an exception because they let (and often expect) you to use potions as a leveling tool to get an edge.
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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby Sidestepper on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:43 pm

I think it can be a bit misleading thinking in terms of raw numbers. Potions give more raw recovery at higher levels, but the proportionate recovery stays the same, and there are lots of times that an early investment can ultimately result in more raw recovery due to earlier leveling. As an extreme example, I just now played a Bloodmage run where I blew up a Wraith-7 from level 2. I had to use a mana potion to do it, but it's obvious that that was more valuable than saving it for the boss.

As a rule, I avoid potion spiking unless it lets me hit a target four levels higher. This threshold goes up or down depending on how hard the dungeon is and what else is going on. There are times when spiking something only two levels higher is worth it. This happens most often when you have found the boss, and are at the bottom of 7th level, and there is a tough level 9 still on the board. At that point in the game, you are trying to inch as close to the level up threshold as you can while leaving as much popcorn on the board as you can. Anything 7th or higher has to be killed now or never (exception: sometimes it is worth it to engage the boss at level 8. As long as you have enough popcorn to get the same number of midfight dings, than this is okay). If that monster-9 is an especially tough one, and you need a potion to get it, you should probably do it. Killing it will save you 13 points of popcorn, which is likely to make the difference between having two dings and only one.

That being said, I usually hoard my potions till the end like everyone else and never end up even using them, but had I been playing an extreme scenario where every move needed to be optimal, that lack of investment might have cost me the game.
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Re: Goblins/Gnomes/Halflings

Postby The Avatar on Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:30 pm

Yes, potions are really a judgement call in which it is impossible to make a general rule. The closest thing is avoid unless 4 levels higher, or it enables a mid-fight level up, saves a massive amount of tiles, is useless, etc.

On the topic of using vs saving potions: I find with the right strategy I can generally always power level (2 level or higher kills only) in any dungeon without running out of exploration (and usually having extra for regen fighting the boss). That means I will have enough popcorn for 2 mid fight level ups (and that should be plenty as stats/combos that enable said power leveling are fairly high/powerful) from 6-8 or 7-9 (usually 7-9, but in tight vicious dungeon like Namtar's Lair you usually have to engage with less exp under your belt). And 4 of each potion meaning almost 2 more level ups from potions, and that doesn't even account for schadenfreude, reflex+quicksilver, etc.
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