Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:19 am

My play is sloppier than usual, but hopefully as I am now doing "Friday Challenge Runs" and soon I will be off of the normal dungeons entirely my play will step up to the level of the stuff I am doing.

That said I don't disagree that balanced dagger/dwarven gauntlets are awesome preps. . .but they aren't really early game, or even mostly mid game for a new player. Even if you "can" get the balanced dagger early it requires a lvl of skill that someone who is in the early game for the first time just isn't going to have. That goes for most of the silver challenges. I tend to look at them as being on the hard end of the hard dungeon spectrum putting them at the late mid-game at best. YOU can get them early. Most people who watch my vids now probably will not.
All you have to do to get the fine sword is pay bezer, and it was in my locker for and often used until literally I was going after just vicious dungeons. Is it the best prep? No. But it is almost universally a "good" prep, and very rarely a bad choice.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:11 am

It's such a shame I have to submit these in such ridiculous blocks.

Episode 11: You will come to love the monk. All players do (or should). As long as you are going to prep the troll heart, you should go halfling. Vampires are GREAT for your priest. They are undead, have mediocre stats, and an ability which is totally negotiable. And you could just regen fight that vampire. You don't NEED BURNDAYRAZ to regen fight. You could just hit the vampire, regen a tile, and kill him. Easy as pie. GG. This is a great altar. Honestly, you should just kill the dark ones after the boss. JUST REGEN FIGHT THE VAMPIRE. Seriously, it's pretty simple. You need 1 tile to survive a hit, he needs 3! That means recovering one or two is a win. Wait, what the heck was that. You regen fight the vampire AFTER getting rid of cheeky, but without getting any extra stuff? WHY? GETINDARE, so this is a blow out. You can kill the level 4 zombie I think. Well, the wraith works too. You think to small. That level 6 vampire (THREE levels higher) is actually a pretty easy kill. You haven't even touched IMAWAL. At least convert it. You are a priest, you really should be targeting higher level undead. You better not have forgotten that ability. You CANNOT forget your class abilities. Good, you remembered your IMAWAL. Now just kill the level 7 vampire. You could have gotten both of those kills one level earlier for more exp, but that's fine. You are totally misplaying the dark ones. Just ignore them till later. Good thinking. Always GETINDARE to build dodge chance. There was no need to pick up that mana immediately, and thus you wasted 5 tiles. Also, it should have been obvious that you could IMAWAL that wraith way earlier. You should't be working to kill the dark ones. Actually, fireball isn't very useful here. It will net you the kill on that gorgon and the wizard, but vs the boss it is useless. And that was dumb. Seriously, this is why I tell you to ALWAYS check the panel. Also, you can't really call that a misclick death. You clicked EXACTLY what you meant to, you just were playing stupidly. You covered a shop withy your WONAFYT. Seriously, this is why you checkerboard. Well, at least you regen fought without BURNDAYRAZ this time. You need to remember that slowed enemies can level you up. Too late. Well, you still have plenty of great targets. You could be killing 3 level higher undead targets. You are exploring without precasted CYDSTEPP and with max mana. Also, you could be WONAFYTing. That is very wrong. Good, you realized it. You could potion kill that level 9 (I feel so wrong saying this). Mana potion if you have the fireball, health potion without it. It's a 5 level higher kill with IMAWAL. That's fine by me. Just IMAWAL first. You actually can't kill the boss right now. Good choice. The exp bonus+the extra exp for the 5 level higher vs four level higher is worth it. You should have just attacked the boss, but whatever. That is much smarter than just popcorn. That was really dumb of you. Converting that fireball would have netted you an extra hit on the boss and saved your DP. Okay, this may seem rather a pointed question, but do you think AT ALL during these easier boss fights? That was so autopilot. You could have easily nabbed feeling parched by casting CYDSTEPP on level up, but instead you just threw down a potion. Well, overall that second run was better. Now just don't forget the dark ones. Now the monk. Things might get a bit shouty on my end... The monk is too good. You could literally remove his physical resist, and he would still be very powerful. Dwarf monks are not good. Honestly, only human and orcs are, and orcs are better 90% of the time. Actually, normally a level 1 would love to face off against that gorgon, because they would do enough damage to one shot it. That is why would always pick the meat man. This is what enemy targeting is. You always pick the enemy that is easiest for your class. Now just do that more. You win in that one. Pretty easily. Your problem with the monk is you lack a fundamental understanding of regen fighting. You can pretty easily kill that goblin. Monks lack magic res, and warlocks do magic damage. You should have kill that goblin earlier. Seriously, your WEYTWUTing has been kind of pathetic. Wow, you just SHOP SCROLLED the PHILOSOPHER'S STONE? That should be a freaking achievement. Yeah, that means you got the alchemist. YOU AREN"T USING BINLOR AS A MONK? Binlor is LITERALLY the best god possible for monks! You are regen fighting stupidly. There was no need to stop the other regen fight. You had no better target, so you might as well keep going. Seriously, just convert WEYTWUT. That extra damage is HUGE for the monk. If there is any class where you should convert a lot of glyphs on sight, it is the monk. You could kill those level 8 meat men as a level 4. That is the power of the monk. WHAT ARE YOU DOING? THAT IS A WARLOCK! THE OTHER GUY IS A MEAT MAN! PICK THE MEAT MAN! Get rid of WEYTWUT! Now you have Taurog to bail you out. That is a cop out. You won't learn how to play the monk well unless you stop leaning on this Taurog crutch. Seriously, you have 3 LEVEL 8 MEAT MEN! That is a dream come true for any monk. Well, at least you are killing the meat men now. Taurog is a good god for the monks, but he isn't the best. He may be able to pull you through hard dungeons as a monk, but that's it. Taurog's armor is better than the shield for a monk. You really don't need full health to engage a lot of the time with a monk. In this case, getting rid of BURNDAYRAZ is smart. Your exploration isn't smart. This is another surprisingly large difference between veteran and newbie play. When you were looking for blahblah, a veteran could immediately see that he wasn't in your sector (also, you should learn the various layouts, like the sectored Eastern Tundra which is also found in Demonic Library) and that he was in the bottom right one. Then, you explored towards a wall block instead of into the open area that was MUCH more likely to have him.

KEY POINTS: BURNDAYRAZ is not a prerequisite of regen fighting. You don not fundamentally understand regen fighting, so you cannot use it truly effectively. Seriously, just learn the (VERY SIMPLE) formula. It's back somewhere in this thread no less. Always check all your targets before choosing one. Of course, this isn't entirely literal, but the point is don't just check one and two level higher targets. Three and four level higher guys are often viable kills in a good strategy. Never forget to always WONAFYT and CYDSTEPP with extra exploration (and ENDISWAL, WEYTWUT, etc.).

Part 12: More challenges? FUN! At this rate, considering how far you are in the main game vs class challenges, you should probably do them more often. Wizard Bronze is probably the single best bronze challenge is the game. It is informative, thematic and still fun once you are a good player (because who doesn't love a good ROFLStomp). GETINDARE is very powerful for wizards. You can kill that guy. You are forgetting your decreased mana costs. GETINDARE only costs TWO. You actually never need to enter the fortress. There never is really anything to comment on in these bronze challenges. You could kill those level 10s right now though. Rath is a joke. You can kill him at level 3. You cannot earn gold, so DING max is meaningless. As is sold stuff, gold carried out, etc. Basically, that means leave as soon as you kill the boss. Well, good job I guess. These bronze challenges really are very easy, but they do their job well. You can kill the level 3, good job. Sorcerer's (as you know) have very good early games. You have max hp and a animated armor with 1. There is NO REASON not to take off its DPs. That wasn't smart. You could have GETINDARE, and you've totally forgot you had it. You could have gotten that so easily... How wasteful. Well, I'm not here to judge your bronze challenge play. You know, now that I think about it, I am here to judge your bronze challenge play. You are wasting potential and could be getting higher level kills, but nice use of PISORF for the double kill. You could have killed the level 8 off your PISORF damage on the mid-fight level up. Seriously, you could save 10 or so tiles EACH KILL with GETINDARE. Also, you aren't touching IMAWAL or BYSSEPS. Your play right now is EMBARRASSING. WORLD OF GOO! Neither IMAWAL nor BYSSEPS served their purpose. Also, why are you playing a human sorcerer? And why are you using the word glorious to describe every kill?

KEY POINTS: Never forget class abilities. Seriously. It hurts you a ton. Well, really that was sloppy play, but it doesn't matter because you were rushing.

Episode 13: Tough glyph layout. Nice use of cowardly there to get to your glyphs. With stoneskin you can kill the troll. And you realized it. You totally overENDISWAL. You can literally PISORF him ONE SPACE to get MA. You underestimate the power of double burning. Seriously, the wizards double burning ability is GREAT at low levels. You should have GETINDARED for the kill. Always GETINDARE for the kill. This is not a good plan. Just converting two glyphs would be enough to get the kill. You are way to relaxed on your conversions. It's nice to get use out of each glyph, but a lot of the time converting things off the bat or after only a few usages is much smarter. Here's a pro tip: As a wizard of GG, convert your potions. It nets you 560 CP (8 mana), lets you keep your glyphs, and gets you 40 piety. Just because your a wizard doesn't mean you should fireball things to death. GETINDAREing for the kill still applies. No way you kill that zombie without ENDISWAL and CONVERTING SOME GLYPHS. You regen fight the strangest targets. This is ridiculously inefficient, and not even possible, yet you regen this instead of the one tiles reveal kill you could get. You don't need two hits. You need a fireball. ENDISWAL? WHAT ARE YOU DOING? ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS CONVERT A FREAKING GLYPH! Why must you insist on NEVER converting stuff when it would make your game significantly easier. Your GERINDAREing is so inefficient. In every possible situation you've chosen to BURNDAYRAZ twice for 10 mana instead of GETINDAREing for two. WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU THINKING? THIS IS A CRIME! WHY IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND THAT GETINDARE COSTS TWO FOR THE WIZARD? ARGH! Now you've wasted piety resources. I am in pain right now. Aequitas should be tackled now. His hp is so below average it is a joke. He literally has the least hp of a non-challenge boss. EVERY TIME! GETINDARE COSTS 2! TWO MANA! Now you decide to convert everything. Classic. Well, at least you didn't convert mid-boss fight. You can still ENDISWAL to get MA, but you can just get her next run. WHY? WHY NOT KILL THE BOSS RIGHT NOW? THINK ABOUT IT! You could literally kill the boss without expending any resources. Secret sub dungeons don't show up until you get the tinker, who appears in the first secret subdungeon after all classes (excluding monsters and specials) are unlocked. Why are you wasting your mana to get close to leveling? Waste your health, it is less important. This was terrible. You constantly forgot your class abilities and never converted your glyphs. That's two mistakes, but those two mistakes were so insanely large that t is very important. Magnet:Fireball (the old fashioned name for flame magnet) is arguably the most useful prep in the game. Good play so far. You could have utilized burning to kill the level 2s with half of the resources and killed the level 4 wraith without mana burn by stacking. You can kill the guardian of magic too. It just takes a late game profile and an incredibly powerful set up. I'm glad you are no longer obsessed with flames. Mid-fight level up Aequitas instead. With refreshment and a shot of mana instead it would work out better. What a pointless waste. You just there away a mid-fight level up kill to see a LEMISI glyph. YOU CAN KILL HIM WITH THE FIREBALL HIT! You never account for burning. Actually, GETINDARE with mystic balance is not that good. That is a mistake. You should find your third mana booster and two magic boons for 4 fireballs. There are no secret sub dungeons yet, northern desert's generation is messed up to make you think there are tome. Well, if you want to choose not to get feeling parched that's your choice.

KEY POINTS: NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE FORGET YOUR CLASS ABILITIES, ITEMS, GOD ABILITIES, BONUSES, OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT AFFECTS YOUR CHARACTER OR THE MAP IN ANY WAY. Also, why do you have such an issue with conversion? Your conversion bonus is very useful. Your play is very autopilot. With about an extra minute of thinking you could be getting feeling parched so much more. Never forget burning's effect. There were 3 or so times where remembering/using it would have been very useful to you.

I apologize for any mistakes in the commentary. I was partially falling asleep.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:47 pm

Time to totally catch back up.

Episode 14: I support more challenge runs. Looking at what you've done, there aren't that many (non-special-class) bronzes left. Yes, that is all of the level 1s. There are 10 level 1s and 5 level 2s. Good job going for the two level higher targets. This is pretty great so far. The only point I have against you is you haven't used IMAWAL yet. You might as well convert it. Actually, elven sorcerers can totally crush the tormented one. Excluding Medusa an Tomithy that is the best possible find. Why are you leaving PISORF on the ground? You need 1 more mana to do this. Just convert the glyphs you are leaving on the ground. Seriously, what the heck is up with you can conversion? Did I miss you saying you were going Hoarder? This is where you regret wasting your subdungeon exploration. If you are not going hoarder (which I really hope you are) this is ridiculously bad. There are two glyphs literally sitting on the ground. Also, you picked up IMAWAL, so USE IT! If you just picked up PISORF you could have accessed the rest of the dungeon a LONG time ago. WHAT? YOU AREN'T GOING HOARDER! That means you have literally made the worst possible glyph decisions. You hauled around an unused IMAWAL when converting it would have saved you a potion, you literally ignored the PISORF glyph on the ground. Now you convert it? WHY NOT EARLIER? You would have such an easier time leveling if you actually converted glyphs. It looks like you have separation issues. Dang, another cop-out monk. Seriously, you are relying far too heavily on Taurog for your monks. Monk of Taurog is one of the few cases where I can condone that GETINDARE conversion. But why not convert WEYTWUT? You should be fighting a level 4. Converting that redundant WEYTWUT would get you 5 more damage reduction 4 more base damage. That would mean the level 5 meat man is killable. Seriously, why are you bothering to Haul WEYTWUT around? It is totally useless. Convert WEYTWUT and BURNDAYRAZ and you will be able to kill the meat men. WHAT? THE GOAT YOU COULD LITERALLY CLICK TO DEATH! WHY NOT KILL IT? You should have killed the meat men FIRST. They are the best possible target for your character. Convert your WEYTWUT. You have over 25 piety. That means you ALWAYS IMMEDIATELY take one of Taurog's boons, unless you really need the 1 mana or piety for a spell you must cast. Bleaty? That's rather unfortunate luck. Convert BURNDAYRAZ. It is unnecessary for you. WEYTWUT costs to much, but you can just regen fight him. WHAT? TWO POTIONS? You could have explored 4 TILES INSTEAD! 4 FREAKING TILES! You can regen fight bleary once you are a higher level. Seriously, you aren't even playing like a monk. This is sad. You are barely utilizing regen fighting. WHAT ON EARTH WAS THAT? You just needed to convert WEYTWUT and BURNDAYRAZ! He literally only does 77 to your monk (220*0.35=77)! That is EASILY regen fightable! You can literally regen fight him very easily. This is sad. You are so against regen fighting this is painful to watch. You are at 99 piety. Stop wasting popcorn. Good, you won. That was a seriously wasteful and not great run, but it was a win. First third tier unlocks should be Bloodmage and Warlord. Actually, there aren't many unlocks in central regen dungeons. Literally, swift hands by itself is enough to make the assassin a good class. I would almost prefer him without his other abilities actually. Human assassins are good or the fighting time, but god-tier assassins should be goblin. Gnome and Elf work for a middle-tier assassin. You should still GETINDARE for the kill even if you don't have to. It stacks more dodge. Good choice. You can kill that bandit with poison and GETINDARE. Good, you saw that. This has been nice assassin play so far. Actually, MA assassins are pretty great, but Faithless is Faithless. That pendant of health is enough to net you the goat kill. Also, the pendant of health isn't a GREAT item, but it certainly isn't bad. Honestly, I'd take the bloody sigil over it most of the time. You should have pre-poisoned that goat .That was a mistake. All it took was your GETINDARE. COME ON! WHAT ARE YOU THINKING! YOU HAVE THE FIRST STRIKE GLYPH AND AUTOMATIC FIRST STRIKE FROM YOUR ASSASSIN ABILITY! INSTEAD OF WINNING FOR FREE WITH THAT YOU WASTED A POTION AND YOUR DEATH PROTECTION! That is the WORST thing you would have done (realistically). Great. You totally forgot GETINDARE. This may be normal, but until you can prove that you don't make these mistakes in other dungeons (which you do frequently) you cannot use the fact that this is normal to excuse sloppy play. ALWAYS PRE-POISON! You are totally misusing APHEELSIK. Remember you can 1. Use it twice in a row to stack extra poison on a boss and 2. Use it MID-FIGHT to keep a poisoned monster poison. Also, if you do a little basic math, you can see that you can regen fight ANYTHING UP TO DOUBLE YOUR LEVEL that doesn't have magic res (or obviously undead). Also, for the purposes of regen fighting, poison is ALWAYS more of a priority than burning. If you have 6 mana and the boss has one-tiles worth of poison, you APHEELSIK unless the fireball enables your kill. WHAT ON EARTH COULD YOU POSSIBLY BE THINKING? YOU CONSTANTLY BURNDAYRAZ INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY POISONING THE BOSS! YES! YOU ARE DOING IT RIGHT NOW! GOOD! KEEP POISONING! That is EXACTLY what you should do! That is how you play the assassin vs the boss! You REGEN FIGHT THE BOSS (as tough as that seems to be for you...). Well, that was a good start and a tough last two runs, but you did it so congrats and all that.

KEY POINTS: CONVERT GLYPHS THAT YOU AREN'T GOING TO USE AND NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE FORGET A GLYPH (you do that waaaaay to much). You tend to either over or underestimate the monk. Seriously, just learn the regen fighting formula (see below). Always make sure that you are picking the best target (as in what your class is best suited to). Always pre-poison as an assassin, and when regen fighting a target (which you can do to guys twice your level), keeping the poison stacks on is top priority.

REGN FIGHTING FORMULA
You can regen fight the monster if Player Regen*Damage taken by Monster > Monster Regen*Damage taken by Player. For the sake of having terms we'll call each of the two sides Power Numbers. So in short, if Player Power > Monster Power, you can regen fight it.

Also, you can see how many tiles it takes by (monster health-damage dealt without regenerating)/Player Power-Monster Power.

Part 15: Let's hope this goes better than the ending of last time. Personally, the quickest warlord runs for me are orc, but that could be because I play them more than gnomes. Honestly, I don't even like the magnet: fireball prep for my warlords. I tend to go fewer glyphs (for more base on an orc), more glyphs (for MA refreshment elves or a higher chance of GETINDARE showing), or more attack boosters (also for orc). You can't kill those level 3s. You can just attack him. You only lose the DP if it says 'BARELY WIN' on the predictor. That's how you know whether you lose the DP when you are left with 1 hp. You can kill the 4 level higher bandit. Good, you looked at him. All you need is precasted ENDISWAL actually. Well, Elven Boots work too. Why are you killing with BURNDAYRAZ when you could GETINDARE? You do more damage, so you didn't even need to regenerate for the second CYDSTEPP. You had 10 mana and no DP right before a level up. That means you cast CYDSTEPP. It saves 10 tiles. This has been rather well done so far. Warlords just have too easy leveling. Just never forget to use all of your mana before leveling. You could have fought that wraith without mana burn using a neat little trick that I love: Precasted GETINDARE. If you precast GETINDARE, you can get in two fireballs (or more depending on mana, ofc) and then a hit without ever being touched. And since you are precasting GETINDARE, you don't even need 15 mana to pull this off. Well, that was rather bad luck on your boss, but at least you are a gnome. That means it won't be too hard. You are trying to approach a level up, so kill your goblins and 2 hit monsters, not your real popcorn. Well, that wasn't too hard. I wonder when you'll realize that this run probably won't net you enough gold for the bloodmage unlock. Human, Gnome, Orc, and Dwarf (HEALTHMONSTERS!) Paladins are the best. Honestly, GG is the only god where converting BURNDAYRAZ on sight is totally acceptable. If you are going to convert your potions, you should use that piety for absolution. Also, you are exploring with ENDISWAL and full mana, which is NEVER a good choice. No bloody sigil? Well, I can't say I'm surprised. You have ENDISWAL! YOU ARE NEVER BLOCKED OFF. The screen actually says pacemaker, so you can't really spoil it. This is really poor divine play. You could have killed that level 3 meat man with absolutions VERY easily. Unfortunately, it seems your GG play is limited to late game only (excluding humility). That is not smart. Absolution costing literally HALF PRICE is incredibly powerful, especially at low levels. It means you can basically have 35 or so hp at LEVEL 1. Oh no. Please don't protection for a 3 level higher kill. TWICE?! Oh dear, this is very wasteful. Well, at least you remembered to ENDISWAL. How on earth do you expect to kill that goo? TORMENTED ONE! The Tormented One is literally the best possible option for GG. Cleansing means magic attack and protection gives you more mana and hp for magic attacks, which is ridiculously good vs his very low hp. More protection? Between the amount of protections you waste and the fact that you converted all potions, you could practically lose this. (not really without totally terrible play, but this could be a bit closer than comfort). Your best course of action is approaching a level up, fireballing the boss, cleansing him, and then level up and repeat. That is a mistake. It is going to be rather difficult to get a mid-fight level up from here. You should never ever forget GGs cleansing, but in this case you don't need it. Yeah, you are short of it. This is what puzzles are for. Hard run! This ought to be interesting! Wow, this is a rather great start. PISORF for movement, IMAWAL for exp, GETINDARE and BURNDAYRAZ for tons of damage. Wow, MA! Also, Poison as a level 1 sorcerer is totally irrelevant as casting one glyph will fully heal you. You can literally kill the snake right now with 2 fireballs and a GETINDARE shot. Pendant of Health enables the level 3 kill. All you have to do to beat that goblin is buy the pendant of health. Ah, Tomithy. That basically guarantees a win. He is the easiest random boss. You could kill the level 7 bandit. Precasted GETINDARE would also allow the level 6 sorcerer kill. Good job finding the band, although you should have IMAWALed first. Nicely done. In hard, targeting is more important than ever. Picking the weaker enemy type can often net you 2 level higher kills while picking the wrong type can lock you out of even low level kills. Sorry, that kill won't work. All it takes is revealing 2 tiles for the hit and then GETINDARE. And you totally screwed it up. Yeah, your regen fighting needs a LOT of work. Honestly, if you really wanted to you could just win now by killing the boss. Mystic balance is actually pretty bad with GETINDARE. Well, you lost 6 bonus exp through that, but you'll live. You are over leveling. That is a classic mistake that will hurt you a lot as you get into harder dungeons. You level up, but in doing so lock yourself out of a mid-fight level up and lose all of your tiles. See, with that level up you lost your ability to fully regenerate. In this case it is going to be fine, but overall you shouldn't be afraid to tackle a boss early. You are totally not able to unstoppable this. Good win anyways. That was fairly well played.

KEY POINTS: Always use all of your health and mana before leveling. GETINDARE is always over BURNDAYRAZ for the kill. You REALLY need to work on your GG play. You should absolve and humble early for MASSIVE exp boosts instead of saving it all for protections. Also, NEVER FORGET CLEANSING GIVES MAGIC STRIKE. Precasted GETINDARE is a great trick for taking out higher level wraiths/snakes without leveling or being poisoned/manaburned, and it also works on monsters that would one-shot you normally. If you have ENDISWAL, you should NEVER be blocked off (excluding dungeons with indestructible terrain like Dragon Isles).

Episode 16: Bloodmages? These certainly aren't your specialty. Gold Challenges? Have fun! They are actually quite interesting and require heavy strategizing, but they are super cool. Honestly, I cannot recommend more that you scout them, as most are totally unwinnable without knowing how they work/the bosses stats. For example, in Priest Gold, you have to do a certain thing at level 1 and not convert a certain glyph or it is literally impossible. The fact that a bloodmage is ridiculous with -3 mana just shows how OP sanguine is. Bloodmages get 3% extra hp on sanguine (I'm pretty sure it is pronounced sang-win, not sang-ween, but whatever). You can APHEELSIK him. Actually, that was very good APHEELSIK use. You should have gone elf bloodmage. NO! APHEELSIK IS ALWAYS BETTER FOR REGEN FIGHTING! Be careful! You stepped on a bloodpool. Just remember that you can walk on bloodpools if your hp is already full. Seriously, does it not occur to use ENDISWAL around guys? Good, you realized it. I retract the previous comment. Well, this would be very good assassin play. And you wasted your next bloodpool. Actually, your APHEELSIKing here is probably the most efficient way for you to level right now. Well, there goes any hope of learning B2Ping. This Taurog play gets repetitive. You should convert ENDISWAL as it would net you another piece of equipment. As long as you are going Taurog, you might as well go full Taurog. A three level higher kill is not worth buying a badge of honor for, especially considering a badge of honor is MORE VALUABLE than a potion. Of either kind. Well, that worked out rather perfectly. You should have converted ENDISWAL there for the kill. Actually, it is okay to use mana potions early for bloodmages, as long as you won't need them for the boss. You should convert all of your glyphs before the boss fight. ENDISWAL is useless against the boss. Good choice. Well, that was easy. Good job! The crystal ball is probably the best mage item in the game (although for total all out casters mage plate can be better). You are a bloodmage with less mana. Shouldn't you go extra mana if not magnet fireball? Well, you got an easy boss to fight. Wow, the world really doesn't want you to reach EM. ENDISWAL+IMAWAL=INFINITE GOLD!!! Now if you just vine form and find BURNDAYRAZ you will be virtually invincible. You should always take a hit of Entanglement ASAP (for an extra hit on your first kill) when of EM. This is shaping up to be a win! Just don't keep wasting your bloodpools. Now that is a mistake that you are going to make a bunch. You should always ENDISWAL plants without magic res (normal plants, curse plants, and kill plants) before monsters (unless you need the piety). That way you get Bloodpools and still get exp boost. That was ridiculously dumb. That would have been an easy win from there. You should literally never Misclick die. It is always your fault if that happens. Pendant of mana is a great buy. If only you had taken the extra mana prep. Binlor is probably the most powerful god in the game (or at least he is present in all of the most powerful strats. He is versatile, powerful, and has a nearly ignorable punishment. You should be PISORFing the level 7 meat man on the long run of walls. Binlor can instantly give you 65% resist. Alternatively you could use Stone Heart to get rid of bleat's magic res and fireball him to death. The key way to use Binlor is using Stone Soup ASAP! It gives you ENDISWAL. No, you just don't play bloodmages like bloodmages... Why are you attacking a wraith that won't level you? That just isn't smart. This is terrible Binlor use. TAKE STONE SOUP! If you get over 111 hp you can kill Bleaty with physical attacks, but otherwise you really should use Stone Heart. You are taking all of the wrong boons... You should get Stone Soup and Stone Heart. Why on earth are you hitting a level 7 to knock it back? You are totally misusing knock back too, and have managed to waste most of your bloodpools. USE PISORF TO GET PIETY, NOT PHYSICAL KNOCKBACK! YOU ARE BEING RIDICULOUSLY WASTEFUL! With GETINDARE and CYDSTEPP you could kill that level 7... And you wasted another one of your bloodpools. This play is TERRIBLE! You are screwing around, wasting exploration, totally wasting your Binlor Abilities. Finally, that was a smarter choice, except you've totally wasted your subdungeon exploration. You can kill Bleaty fairly easily using CYDSTEPP and GETINDARE actually, so if you go conversion crazy this could work. You are forgetting your Knockback. You need your health potions to CYDSTEPP more. That was a very poor choice. YOU DON'T HAVE TO FREAKING LEVEL, AND YOU ARE MAKING A HUGE MISTKE BY TRYING! YOU CAN KILL HIM RIGHT NOW! Stone heart would nets you some extra resistances. Now you are just killing yourself in a massive downward spiral. Now just potion and kill the two level 4s. You need to win. Just accept the foolishness of your move and level up. You should have Knocked him back diagonally down so you can shove him down the row of walls. See, that is why you shouldn't have tried to level. All that did was waste 2/3 of your end game resources vs Bleaty. You already screwed up your knockback. You could have just GETINDAREd. Ugh, well that was painful. I'll catch up on the rest sooner.

KEY POINTS: Seriously, you have to remember not to immediately drink your bloodpools. Your binlor play is TERRIBLE. The first thing you should to with him is take STONE SOUP. Seriously, every time you worship a god, look through and read every boon. Otherwise you play terribly like this. Being level 7 is not a prerequisite to start boss fights! You can start boss fights at level 4 sometimes, or earlier.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:17 am

yay you got through all the normal dungeons :)
I can't play nearly so sloppy and still win on the hard dungeons so hopefully I will be doing generally better.
As far as waiting till lvl 7 to fight bosses, I know you CAN fight them earlier. I just tend to use lvl 7 as my "okay I need to fight bosses now or I might not be able to get a mid fight lvl" moment.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Lujo on Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:49 am

JayPlaysIndieGames wrote:I can't play nearly so sloppy and still win on the hard dungeons so hopefully I will be doing generally better.


You better, or poor drill seargent Avatar will die of an burst blood vessel :D
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:39 am

Finally, BREAK! I should be able to get these done more regularly now.

Episode 17: Eh, based on how good you were when you stopped, you should be able to beat hards (at least the basic 4 hards) fairly easily. Really? Priest again? Well, fair enough. As long as you are going as a dwarves priest, you should prep damage (fine sword+attack boosters). Although you could debatably switch the attack boosters for magnet: fireball. You will probably eventually see the value of the bloody sigil. Not only does it almost DOUBLE your regeneration at low levels, but it has a HUGE Gold to CP ratio. You should have WEYTWUTed the dragon for the kill. Good play so far. I really don't have anything major to complain about. Good targeting. You have forgotten your WEYTWUT, but that isn't a hugely important mistake. You could probably get 2 level higher kills on zombies. That is the creeplight specific subdungeon that changes cultists to shades. You should always WEYTWUT for the kill instead of BURNDAYRAZ. In fact, generally, killing with BURNDAYRAZ is the worst choice (beyond possibly just an unchanged physical attack). When you see LEMISI on the ground and have one space in your inventory, ALWAYS pick it up and scout 3-5 times to find all glyphs, altars, and subdungeons. Hmm... you can probably still kill the two level higher dragon. I wouldn't change the cultists until you've explored most of the map. And you totally blew it. He has revives, so that was just a waste of a potion. That is actually much worse. It would have been a wimpy level 8 shade. That pendant of mana is ridiculously valuable actually. It means you can get 4 or so hits every fight (hit, burn, CYDSTEPP, WEYTWUT). Good choice. The fine sword is less valuable than your glyphs and a badge of courage. You should start on the boss now. Good job on the two level higher kills. See, the key to beating Anoobis is STARTING EARLY. You can regenerate between his forms since they are totally different. You should not have explored most of the map after turning them to shades. NO! STOP! THIS IS WRONG! You could kill that boss right now without expending any resources. And you're wrong, EXPLORATION IS VERY VALUABLE FOR THE BOSS FIGHT! You have 14 mana. THAT MEANS WEYTWUT+BURNDAYRAZ. See, you can fully heal between his forms. This is going to be tricky for you, except you can take two hits per potion. You need to reorder your "last ditch process" (LDP). First you check shops, gods, and mid-fight level ups; then you use all of your glyphs and your mana potions; then you convert all of your glyphs, then you use all of your health resources. Nice run. Priest is a super easy run here, but well done nonetheless.

KEY POINTS: BURNDAYRAZ or a regular hit should be your last priority for killing a monster. 14 mana is magic for WEYTWUT+BURNDAYRAZ. You can regen between Anoobis' forms, so start early when you have more regeneration. Don't change the cultists until most of the map is uncovered (3/4).

Episode 18: Priest and Monk Bronze? This ought to be interesting! Priest is the most flavorful and fun challenge (in contention with Wizard Bronze) and you can win very easily by exploring the whole map at level 1, then get an IMAWAL kill in a level 6 vamp, then proceed to clean up and get DING! Max. Seeing as you can kill an even tougher monster without potioning, potioning against that wraith is unadvised. Whatever though, it's a bronze challenge. On principle you should GETINDARE before every hit and be WONAFYTing as you walk around. You totally missed your dodge... that could have been a non-mid fight level up kill. I can't even imagine what must have gone horribly wrong for you to take 36 mins on two bronze challenges... You literally had a long column of exploration that you ignored. It's a miracle you're alive... Yay! Nice win! Oh my god. That was literally the dumbest possible thing you could have done. Badges are ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS in challenges. I am going on commentary strike for your second run of this (because there really isn't anything to say that hasn't already been said). Now the monk. And this is going to take 16 minutes, so I assume you lose... Good so far. Orc monk is by far the best combo (except maybe in VGT). You're going to regret the LEMISI conversion. You should head for the BYSSEPS. Being at level 2 makes level 4s possible. WHAT? YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY DESTROY THAT MEAT MAN. Literally. You can regen fight ANYONE UP TO DOUBLE YOUR LEVEL. Why would you target a goblin over a gorgon. If you fought the gorgon that would have worked. Why do you always regen so much. Twice now 1 TILE would be sufficient, but instead you use 10. WHY AREN'T YOU BYSSEPSING BEFORE EVERY HIT? WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING? YOU ARE WALKING AROUND WASTING YOUR EXPLORATION ON SUMMONS INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY REGEN FIGHTING! Honestly, your play right now is deplorable. You are wasting exploration on summons only, totally ignoring the better of your two glyphs (BYSSEPS!). You need to kill the boss now. And you pick the level 9 instead. There goes your game. YOU HAVE TILES AND YOU COULD HAVE BYSSEPED! WHAT ARE YOU EVEN DOING! YOU CAN WIN THE FREAKING DUNGEON WARMONGER! You don't deserve consolation. THIS IS A BRONZE CHALLENGE! YOU ARE AN ORC! CONVERT A GLYPH! DANG IT, STOP WONAFYTING! If you just converted WONAFYT, this would go so much better. Good, you are actually regen fighting this run while summoning instead of summoning only and wasting all of your regeneration. A level 7 meat man is an easier target than a level 6 goblin for any monk. Seriously, the difference in play between Episode 17 and this one is INCREDIBLE. WHY ARE YOU NOT ATTACKING THE HIGHER LEVEL MEAT MAN? INSTEAD YOU ARE TOTALLY WASTING EXPLORATION! This is painful regen fighting. Honestly, as an orc you will probably have a better time warmonger. There is a level 8 meat man. That is the perfect target for a level 5 monk. There was a level 9 gorgon right under your character. One-line scanning is key, I promise. You seem to have trouble saving exploration for the boss. It is mor valuable than potions. To be fair you have water tiles in this case, but you usually don't. You don't need a mid-fight level up for this. POTIONS? YOU HAVE NIGH INFINITE SPACE OUTSIDE THE ISLAND! Why would you not use LEMISI before potions? Anyways, that is a win. You think that was tough? Have fun with the silver.

KEY POINTS: Eh, it's a bronze, but always WONAFYT with excess, GETINDARE before every shot with no better options, BYSSEPS before every shot, and you really have to trim down on your regen fighting.

Episode 19: Ah, the (second) easiest hard dungeon. The really big sword is a really nice item, especially for rock garden, or anywhere you know there will be physical resist boss. Eh, Bet on Boss isn't arrogant, it's just smart. It costs 5 if you lose and gains 145 net if you win. So if you think you will lose 29 times before winning, don't take it. Wow, I'm loving the background soundtrack for rock garden. Being the fighter is not an excuse for killing popcorn. In fact, it is even more of a reason NOT to kill popcorn. I swear, if they resist once, they resist 100 times. DANG IT JAY. That was NOT SMART. There are the same amount of monsters AS IN A NORMAL DUNGEON! NO DUNGEONS MESS WITH MONSTER GENERATION, THAT'S JUST CLASS CHALLENGES. Wow, this is super wasteful. Also, ENDISWAL around plants, don't WEYTWUT them. ENDISWAL is cheaper and can open more avenues. Poison doesn't remove fast regen. In fact, it is slightly weaker than fast regen. It is more valuable to poison than to burn. That regen fighting is really inefficient. Actually, I would take 1 hit of mana right now as 16 mana is 2 APHEELSIKs and a BURNDAYRAZ. Also, there is virtually NO reason not to take the first level of magic. You have APHEELSIK! You really ought to correct yourself on your next rock garden video. You could be confusing new players. WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU DOING? WHY CAN YOU NOT SEEM TO FATHOM THE IDEA OF POISONING MID-BATTLE! THAT WAS SO EASY TO BEAT! Your ENDISWALing is incredibly dumb. You are ENDISWALing a totally fully revealed wall of which you can access both sides. Just level up. Honestly, I am not even going to comment on your APHEELSIK regen fighting. Just make it better. I've already had one tirade about it, so you know what's wrong. No. The goo is by far the hardest of the 3 bosses. See, if you had already been ENDISWALing the corners you wouldn't have to waste that. You need to look at your shops earlier, because you could have gotten feeling parched. Wow, that is ironic. You are looking hard at the make for exploration, when all you have to do is look at your inventory for ENDISWAL! MORE BAD BOSS DECISIONS! You ALWAYS use non-potion resources BEFORE POTIONS! And another mistake. You should have BURNDAYRAZed him, then WEYTWUTTed. WHY DID YOU POTION BEFORE LEVELING? Sorry on the half-baked comments on this. I'm a bit tired.

KEY POINTS: You really need to prioritize your boss fighting moves. Doing them haphazardly can be the difference between victory and defeat. Always ENDISWAL in good places. All non-class-challenge dungeons have normal monster generation. Rock garden just adds 2 monsters per level.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby JayPlaysIndieGames on Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:51 am

I can't wait until you get to episode 21. it is my first use of the acidcaster, so I was way clumsy, but it was great. I wanna try that strat on a more "normal" hard dungeon sometime.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Sidestepper on Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:46 am

It was a real kick to see the acid caster being piloted by someone else!

I was impressed with how well you did, considering that you didn't prep specifically for it and only got the idea midway through.

The acid caster is stronger than you realize. You could have taken that Serpent-9 down from first level. In fact, if playing on Hard or lower, you should always aim for your first kill being a monster-9. That Serpent had 134 health. With 10 stacks of corrosion and 2 stacks of burning, your fireballs would be doing 16 damage each. That's 9 fireballs, which isn't actually all that many. Killing the serpent with the IMAWAL bonus would have given you a flat 100 xp, landing you at 6th level and just 5 points shy of 7th. From there, you can kill the random boss, giving you another 64 points. Super Meat Man was a tough draw, but the acid caster is up to the challenge. I've beaten him even on Vicious token runs.

You were right about piety being everything. Spam Greenblood and even a little bit of Vineform so that there are always plants around. Be aggressive about bricking monsters. You get so many bonus points from your first two kills that the lack of popcorn doesn't hurt you much. It's better to brick a few monsters than to waste black space.

Convert harder if you try this again. As an elf, you want to have at least 20 mana at 1st level. Anything less than that and you're better off as a gnome. Elves don't get the piles of potions that gnomes do, but if they really crank the conversion, they can compensate by having more efficient mana potions, stronger dings, and game breaking levels of Schadenfreude abuse. If you had reached 20 mana and had gone after that Serpent-9, you would have had 4 fireballs from mana alone. A single Shadenfreude (backed by Vineform) would have given you 4 more, and then you would have been a single mana potion away from a glorious 100 xp kill. or, lacking Schadenfreude, a few Clearances or mana potions would have made up the difference. At 20 mana, each potion is worth 8 points, meaning that you could trade potions for fireballs at an excellent 2-for-3 ratio.

Preparations like Schadenfreude and Dragonsoul are transformative and can take the acid caster to insane levels of efficiency. I just did a practice run after watching your vid and ended up beating Hexx with 12 Greenblood stacks, 3 mana potions left, 2 Schadenfreude potions left, 100 piety still in the bank, and only one Clearance ever used. Once the strategy "clicks" for you, Vicious is the only thing that even comes close to justifying the level of power you reach at the end.

Hardcore Greenblood stacking has lots of ins and outs and room for lots of variations. I might do an acid caster guide in the near future.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Urthop on Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:54 pm

Sidestepper wrote:Convert harder if you try this again. As an elf, you want to have at least 20 mana at 1st level.

Well, he was playing a gnome, unless you mean trying it in an optimal situation.
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Re: Video Review of Desktop Dungeons and a Let's Play!

Postby Sidestepper on Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:02 pm

:oops:

You're right. I played an elf wizard game right after watching jay's video and it looks like I got the details from the two mixed up. Gnomes work too, and are even better in some situations, but elf has always been my favorite.
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