Vamp Revamp

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Re: Vamp Revamp

Postby q 3 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:23 am

I don't think mana regen would make any glyph a "must have" for Vampires (possibly excepting BLUDTOPOWA, but not much more than it's a must have for any spellcaster, and certainly not to the extent that it'd be worth scumming for unless you're even more into tedious min-maxing than I am). HALPMEH, as noted, pisses off Dracul, who would remain one of the Vampire's best deities. BURNDAYRAZ would be much more important for dealing with heavy hitting and high phys resist monsters. GETINDARE and WEYTWUT would both be incredibly helpful. BICEPS would probably be more beneficial for Vampires than for any other class, since as noted above your actual damage dealt imposes a hard cap on your lifesteal ability. Even APHEELSIK could be very handy in certain situations, especially at low levels.

More importantly, I think, mana regen would make it possible for Vampires to actually benefit from other deities. JJ in particular would be very nice for his +HP boon and Chaos Avatar's conversion points and monster resist reduction, but only if you actually have mana to spend on WEYTWUT. Despite lacking resistances, Binlor would allow Vampires to reduce monster resistances, or (along with Mystera) build up piety so you can actually take advantage of Pactmaker, or convert to Tikki Tooki and get poison attack and dodge (not to mention his potions, which a Vampire would generally prefer over health potions), or Earthmother to take advantage of her fixed damage reduction (which lets you get around the 0% cap on normal resistances) and then immediately convert out, or occasionally even Glowing Guardian for Humility and another immediate conversion.

Permanent first strike, on the other hand, would reduce the number of relevant options and make every Vampire runthrough that much more identical to the last one. Although I do hope that the Dancing Sword is reintroduced at some point...
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Re: Vamp Revamp

Postby The Avatar on Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:27 am

The dancing sword was awesome. AWESOME! Unfortunately, it's a completely useless item for rogues, so they might not reintroduce it, but I'm all for it. I already scum for GETINDARE and Dracul, and this would just increase my need to scum for them. Or rather the need for Dracul stays the same.

GETINDARE is such a crucial glyph, that I suggested giving them first strike, and mana regen.
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Re: Vamp Revamp

Postby Crawly McCrawlsa on Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:13 am

I vote first strike and add +1 max mana per conversion. Nothing more. Mana regen just makes him waaay too powerful. His faults are that he can't handle any sort of physical resistance, and that he needs first strike. With a large non-regenerating mana pool, it gives him enough magical abilites to deal with physical resistance, while not making broken combos like blodtopowa + halpmeh.
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Re: Vamp Revamp

Postby The Avatar on Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:21 am

I completely agree. Your still scumming for Dracul. Even if you find HALPMEH, you'll need to save the mana for BURNDAYRAZ, or the resisters will crush you.
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Re: Vamp Revamp

Postby Crawly McCrawlsa on Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:15 am

Well, with the massive mana pool that he'll be generating, you should be able to level catapult by using either halpmeh or burdayraz to blow up an enemy several levels above you, then mopping up monsters around your level if need be. This should leave a lot of low level monsters which you can lifesteal off of to heal yourself up/midfight levelup the boss. So, unless it's a vicious dungeon, you won't have to scum for dracul.
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Re: Vamp Revamp

Postby Alweth on Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:40 am

How about changing the Vampire so that he's less like other classes/races rather than more like them? For example, make it so his life-steal ignores resistance. IE. his life steal is capped at the amount of damage he would have done if the enemy had no resistance. This could be a problem if there's any 100% physical resist enemies that do little or no damage.

I like the idea of not allowing him to worship Gods because it's very different, but what I don't like about it is that having him worship Dracul makes so much sense. It would kind of be like saying Wizards can't worship MA. One option would be to have him start as a worshiper of Dracul, but then you're simply enshrining his reliance on Dracul. The ability and requirement to develop strategies with different gods is one of the things that makes DD fun. Nevertheless, having one class that can't certainly wouldn't be game-breaking.
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Re: Vamp Revamp

Postby TigerKnee on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:07 am

How many Vampire puns can we get through before the week is over?
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Re: Vamp Revamp

Postby Crawly McCrawlsa on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:48 am

I dunno... but he's sucking my kingdom pool dry.
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Re: Vamp Revamp

Postby The Avatar on Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:20 pm

Well if you had +1 mp, hp, life steal, and base damage %, and permanent first strike, you could ban him from gods at a 30 conversion point area.
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Re: Vamp Revamp

Postby q 3 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:45 pm

Giving Vampires +1 MP per 40 point conversion would be horribly overpowered. You could very easily get to 36 max MP, with a free MP refresh every time you level up, which can be used on the boss or on other high level monsters. 36 MP, starting at level 2 through level 9, translates to 6 fireballs per level which adds up to over 1,000 damage. If that wasn't enough, then you hit level 10 with another 36 MP and at least four mana potions, at 14 MP each, which is worth another 15 fireballs (600 damage) or 30 HALPMEHs (900 HP). And that's assuming no Fire Heart or Battlemage Ring, either of which would take this strategy from "ludicrous" to "instant win button" territory.
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