Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby The Avatar on Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:20 pm

And counter fireball! (Finally, an effective way to avoid it without paying 14 mana per fireball) Sounds great!
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby Darvin on Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:46 pm

Removing the first strike effect from slow would make this glyph totally useless for most classes. "Counters fireball" is annoying, but it's a relatively rare effect. Characters using primarily HALPMEH or CYDSTEPP aren't really affected by it to begin with. If anything, slow is a lackluster and overpriced effect at 8 MP and needs more value to be added, not removed.

I'm fine with GETINDARE and WEYTWUT having some overlap, just so long as it's not the total overlap they have currently. I'm not opposed to changing WEYTWUT, but any change should be a net improvement to the glyph's usefulness.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby The Avatar on Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:55 pm

As a stacking effect that removes first strike, counter fireball, blink, etc. it would be fine. At half cost.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby Darvin on Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:11 pm

I totally disagree. It'd be fine as is at half cost and the only issue with doing so is that this makes GETINDARE look bad by comparison. Seriously, blink and counters fireball are both relatively rare effects and there aren't too many dungeons that have these to begin with. Similarly, most classes really don't give a damn about first strike when it comes from a lower-level monster (the fact that the RBS is at all viable is testament to this!) and only care about getting first strikes against higher level monsters, which your change would no longer allow.

As I see it, GETINDARE should get a secondary effect (it's a non-repeatable glyph, it deserves it), and WEYTWUT should get a cost decrease to be at a similar price point, probably 4-5 MP. The two glyphs would have overlap, but so long as they each have their own unique angle that's fine.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby The Avatar on Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:28 pm

That works. I actually use it as a swap glyph too, so I don't even use the slow effect that much...
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby Lujo on Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:14 am

I have not in all this time even been aware that slowing stuff gave you first strike against the slowed target. I never tried testing that because of what Darvin said. It only comes up as an issue against a fatal blow from a higher enemy, and the reason i never tested it against something lower is that it costs 8 damn mana, and the same thought flashed through my mind a couple of times - wow, that would mean the only thing Getindare has over it is the cost, the dev's can't be THAT silly...

Turns out they were. Seriously, GETINTHARE is a bit of an inventory clogger, and since it doesn't work against first stirkers, whenever a first stirker made my getindare totaly obsolete (and it happened often) i always somehow whished i had Wheytwut as well (which i kept treating as insta-conversion fodder most of the time. D'oh!)

This has to be fixed. I've been playing for the whole time thinking that slow strike doesn't give you attack priority, and it worked fine (but its cretionusly overpriced in that case). If you remove the slow strike, lower the price, make it take just take first strike away, you don't really need to do anything with getindare except give to Tiki Tooki as a free glyph.

And if someone wants to fist strike the first strikes, he should have them both. GETINDARE remains the first strike buff, and WHEYTWUT the debuff/positioning tool.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby gjaustin on Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:21 am

Yeah, GETINDARE has a great ability in certain circumstances, but losing the inventory space and conversion points ends up being too big of a loss most of the time.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:29 am

I almost always use GETINDARE once or twice, and then convert it.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby Darvin on Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:52 am

That's the issue with non-repeatable glyphs; they clog up inventory space. It's not that they're bad, it's just that they aren't good enough and can't be used often enough to merit hauling them around and forgoing the conversion bonus the whole time. This is why I'd like to see GETINDARE have a broader effect.
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Re: Complicated Tasks, Pt 6 Help!

Postby The Avatar on Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:56 am

Very true, I couldn't have said it better myself. But what would the effect be? 10% dodge (stacking to 50% max). I mean if you're moving around fast, they shouldn't hit you, right?
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