Brainstorming

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Revision as of 16:37, 30 March 2010 by 82.150.248.28 (Talk)

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dislekcia: Can we put in a picture of the game and a link to the latest version in the "Welcome" area? I can't see how to edit that...

Well, I've added the front-page link, but you're going to have to either upload the image or enable external image linking ($wgAllowExternalImages) for me to do the screenshot. - Chippit 09:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Would it be possible to include a number amount for the damage increase in the tooltip of Bysepps (and in other similar situations)?

Almost: Some indication or acknowledgement of the thief's first attack bonus or the berserker's bonus damage when attacking higher level monsters when hovering the mouse over them would be nice.

  • Also, account for damage reduction when showing how much damage enemies do.

salejemaster: I'm not sure how to do this but we should somehow change the screenshots that are posted here in the tigdb http://db.tigsource.com/games/desktop-dungeon to screenshots from .5 because the new tile set is much better then the old one, and you know how graphics matter to people, if anyone has any info on how to do this please post :)


Perhaps the Bloodmage and Vampire should have the option to pick up blood patches. Perhaps it could be done via the glyph interface. Of course, if a summoned monster dies on a glyph, then I suppose that could lead to trouble.


DGM: For the wiki itself, a section for the spells should be added. Also, Glitterfingers is missing from the gods section. For the game, here are some ideas for the deity system:

1) Dracul rejects Priests. Should the Glowing Guardian accept Assassin followers? It seems out of character, and it's a cheap way to steamroll the Assassin/Crypt challenge.

Seems TGG is pretty forgiving to me (more generous than the god they're copied from anyway!) - if you are an Assassin that isn't using poison, they're fine with it I think. On the same topic, though, I think TGG altars shouldn't even spawn in the Crypt, because it basically makes it an auto-win for any class. --Twinge

2) Binlor Ironshield gives the wall-buster spell when you convert to him. This should be used for other gods: Mystera Annur should give Fireball since her worshipers are helpless without it, and the Earthmother should give the stoning spell.

Earthmother *does* give IMAWAL... providing it doesn't already exist. Binlor is the same way with the ENDISWAL Glyph: if it already exists, he won't create it. And that leads nicely to Mystera: BURNDAYRAZ is guaranteed to appear on every map anyways. All this said, it wouldn't be a bad idea to move the Glyphs to the player's feet when they convert to these gods --94.7.130.253 15:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

3) Speaking of the Earthmother and the stoning spell, she's lame mostly because the spell is lame. It denies you experience and doesn't clear obstacles out of the way; it has no use except to make her happy and her reward isn't good enough. I suggest having the spell only work on monsters below your level, but count as a regular kill (giving experience, triggering rewards/punishments from the gods, etc.). This would make it useful in its own right and make the Earthmother less painful to follow.

Rather than change the mechanic of the god and render the special Gorgon class somewhat irrelevant, why not just change the reward? +1HP per level per enemy petrified, perhaps. Or +1HP per monster level. -ChaoSpectre
The Earthmother giving regular XP for stone kills seems quite fair, as it balances with you not being able to take those stones out of the way.

4) Glitterfingers just helps you get money, right? You can stockpile money easily enough anyway. How about having him spawn some potion shops to spend it on?

How about if Glitterfingers removed the cap on gold for that run only? If you had more than the max at the end of your run, then it would be reduced to the max. 68.159.130.228 16:21, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
He could certainly use something - right now he's vaguely useful to grind up some gold slightly faster between real games, and even then mostly only if you don't have Goblin unlocked. Giving 2 gold per kill instead of 1 - and maybe also removing the cap as mentioned above - probably still doesn't actually make him useful, but would be a start I guess. Glittergfingers should probably be revamped completely, but that can wait until the whole gold system is revamped.

5) Right now there's not much reason to renounce a god except to see what happens. I'd like the option pick a god from the start (like race and class) instead of spawning random alters, so why not use the god's curses as part of another unlock system? If you level up at least, say, 5 times AFTER earning a god's disfavor and still win the game, you get the option to start with him as your deity. As an adjunct to this, let the player brick an alter with the stone spell or shatter it with the wall-buster spell as a way of angering the deity.

rickgriffin: Thoughts about the high score board:

1) Include which boss was defeated on the run.

Agreed. Also what god they were worshiping, if any. --Twinge

2) Besides the top score board, also have separate boards for each class, so people have a reason to have high score runs without just selecting the 'best' class/race.

Ideally there wouldn't be any clear best combos, and I think that is the goal down the road; there may be some combos that suck, but there shouldn't be any that dominate ranked games (I'm looking at you, Vampire & Human Rouge/Monk!) Not that having separate charts for each class would be a bad thing, I'm just saying the bigger issue is one of overall balance =) --Twinge
  • What about also having top score boards for each of the challenge dungeons, as well? Neongrey 21:04, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Now that I think about it, having a score breakdown would be a neat thing too, so you could see what all contributed to a high score. 68.159.130.228 13:28, 21 March 2010 (UTC) (rickgriffin)

DGM: Suggestions for the glyph system:

1) Certain glyphs - mainly the three teleportation spells - are vastly inferior to most other glyphs. Rather than try to make all spells equally useful, though, I suggest dividing glyphs into two categories: Master glyphs and Apprentice glyphs. Master glyphs would work as glyphs do now. Apprentice glyphs would be weaker and/or more costly and would give no bonus on conversion, but each game some of them would spawn next to the player's starting position. This would balance the glyphs and help eliminate hopeless starts.

2) To go with the above idea, here's a suggested new spell: DUNBEESHOKD (Lightning Bolt) - 4 Mana. Deals 2 damage per player level to a monster. This would be an apprentice version of Fireball, suitable for giving to the player from the start in case they want to go the pure magic route.

3) Suggestions for specific spells:

....BLUDTUPOWA needs work. How about letting it turn a health potion into a mana potion instead? That would make it more generally useful while keeping with the Blood Mage's health-for-power theme.

....WEYTWUT teleports you somewhere useless or dangerous too often. How about having it only take you to shops, glyphs and alters? Or at least making it send you somewhere you haven't already explored?

....I already discussed fixing IMAWAL when I talked about the Earthmother earlier, but I'll repeat it here for completeness: restrict it to enemies below the player's level, but let it count as a normal kill for reward/penalty purposes.

Almost: If it's possible, generate dungeons from a seed number, and allow the player to replay maps by giving it the seed again or challenge a friend to do better than they did on that map. Maps from any mode could be replayed in such a manner, but completion of these maps would not count for unlocking stuff or highscores. This would also allow players to retry a map that they think they could've done better on and attempt more ideal solutions while learning how to play.

Seconding this, and display the seed number during the game. That way we can always recreate the game when someone posts a screenshot and asks questions about it.

Limiting WEYTWUT to unexplored area would be a definite plus.

DGM: Nandrew, I assume you're reading this since I got the link for this wiki from you. Are you going to share the source, so we can play with ideas you reject? Failing that, would you use the discussion page and comment on which ideas being presented here that you're considering using? I've got more ideas for the glyph system I suggested, but there's no point in talking about it if it will never be implemented.

Jabberwock: One suggestion for the dodge - as it seems it is one of very few random elements after the game starts (maybe beside the Imp teleports), it is a little bit out of place. What if the order of the enemy miss was predetermined instead of random? That is, one of the five enemy hits misses - I receive hit no.1, 2 etc., and the no. 5 always misses... Would certainly make it more strategic.

fall_ark: This might sound a little cheap but... how about adding a "minimum gold" bonus? Or change the saved gold system as a whole. I mean, after unlocking the Goblin race it becomes super easy to gain 50~70 gold in a few minutes, and before that I used to choose rogue to do some rounds of hoarding...It just feels a bit tedious. Or I'm just lazy and spoiled...


Stormy: What about highlighting the classes who beat a particular dungeon. Just like it's currently done with the standard dungeon, but extended to the others, when the cursor hovers over the buttons.

Fizanko: to make every gods more usefull and varied, maybe having them spawning a glyph or a new trait for the player, unique to them after the player successfully attacked and destroyed the other deities altars, giving alternatively an incentive for the player to explore the whole dungeon to find every altars. Could then be used to balance the less interesting gods by having them spawning a more interesting glyph/trait.

Going4Paladin: The monk needs a buff, his last 2 skills are lovely, but when he loses half attack, he has nothing to kill with.... maybe he needs a poison immunity???

The monk really doesn't need a buff. His DIAMOND BODY skill already allows you to take half damage from the start, and you're doing half damage to the enemy, so fights tend to simply take twice as long. But HAND TO HAND just has your Damage Bonus start at -50%. Each Attack Powerup you find or Glyph you convert as a Human increases this by 10%. So after 5 Glyphs/Powerups, you're back to base damage, whilst your enemies are still doing half damage to you.
The net result of these two abilities is that every boost to Damage Bonus has *double* the effect than for other characters, and that's one hell of a buff. The same applies to any extra Physical or Magical Resistance items you may eventually find in the shops: they provide twice as much help to the Monk because his resistance is already so high.
So yes, while he can be a little difficult to work with at Level 1 due to damage being rounded down, he swiftly gets much stronger as you gain sources of Damage Bonus. And his enhanced Health Regen makes hit and run tactics much much easier. --94.7.130.253 05:48, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Fizanko : i agree with DGM up there, i believe IMAWALL is in a need of a rework in my opinion, as in its current status it brings no advantage in comparison to every other glyph that cost a base 5 mana or even less, as by using it not only you deny yourself the xp of a petrified monster (and in Desktop Dungeons you need every xp you can) but by mistake you can block you own way.

The only use is for The Earthmother deity, but still i don't see the +1 HP gain to balance the xp you will not get from the petrified monster and the blocked path it creates, or just converting it for a bonus.

I can see and understand that to be a difficult glyph to balance, but i think it should count for a kill (so delivering the xp) when used for monsters that are below your own level (so you can't use it on a boss to get an "easy win"), or making it only in a limited amount of use so you can't overuse it.

To round out the tier 1 classes, how about showing the locations of the altars to the priest, and the stores to the thief?

On the main menu, rather than having to look at the rollover text to see if you've beaten a challenge with a class, instead give the dungeon selection buttons boarders like the class selection buttons get after beating the normal dungeon. Also, give the transmuter et al. classes boarders after beating the normal dungeon, don't leave them out.

Resistances are a pain to the mental math, how about displaying the actual numbers, for example, if I'm a monk, a monster's rollover would say "Attack:41 (20)" Admittedly it's easy for monks, but when dealing with 30% resistances, that is harder.

Agree. This applies to both the damage the monsters will deal to you after Monk bonus, Tower Shields, etc. and the damage you'll deal to them after their resistances, your Berserker bonus, etc. This can either shown in the monsters Health Line or next to your attack value. --Twinge


There really should be a iPhone/iTouch version of Desktop Dungeons. I think it would be awesome on the platform. Dont know how hard to port it is but you know, a suggestion:D zreaperz-

  • or even Android. It is definitly the kind of time sink i'd love to have in my pocket

Some more Random idea:

Other Offensive spells (Difficult to implement, because the fireball is pretty well balanced at the moment) Have 1 off glyphs that can be cast once, so a big Fireball explosion, maybe 12 damage per level for example?

Have an offensive spell that either ties in with Max Mana, or your attack Power...?

A spell like poison, maybe "STASIS" that binds the enemy and as you explore the dungeon it loses health. Although this would be like poison, maybe to balance it you lose health as well?

Attack Ideas:

Make a class like a thief or ranger, that does ranged damage. How i see this working would be 1 "free" attack before the monster retaliates and fights back. Conversely some monsters could have the "Cover or Awareness" ability that counters this.

Class ideas:

There are classes that only use the health stat and not mana, how about the other way around? SO only mana? Maybe an Angel, or Elemental? Also for these classes have them do something usefull with the Mana or Health potions/Power ups..

Other random ideas:

Wildmage: When you use a mana potion you get a random effect.

Achievements: This game needs something to keep us addicted after getting the last unlock. The high score list won't do it for all players, but an achievements list would. It also provides a handy point system for a 'trait' system.

Traits: Let players select benefits and penalties before each match. This can require 'points' (A certain number to start with, with more available as you complete achievements, or simply one point per dungeon beaten with each class) have an impact on the final score, or both. Example: Jerry selects four traits before his game. Heavy Handed, Explorer, Blackballed, and Veteran. Heavy Handed prevents him from gaining any Dodge or First Strike abilities, but doubles damage dealt to creatures below level 5. (Score x 1) Explorer adds 50% to health regeneration and +1 to mana regeneration from exploration. (Score x0.5) Blackballed removes all shops from the map. (Score x1.25) Veteran adds +1 xp per kill, as per the Fighter trait. (Score x0.8) Jerry finishes the map with a score of 28000. After multipliers, he is awarded a final score of 14000 to submit to the leaderboards.

Brainstorming new glyphs:

  • IPHEELWEEK (Weaken) - Lower monster's attack power by 10%.
  • WARIZHEL (Mass Charm) - Every monster makes an attack on an adjacent monster. (High-level monsters act first, targeting the lowest-level monster they can reach.)
  • HIVOLTIJ (Chain lightning) - Deals 3 damage per level and leaps to any adjacent monsters.
  • IKANSI (Selective Amnesia) - Unexplore twelve random tiles. (12 == casting cost.)
    • Broken. Player can get as much HP as they want doing this repeatedly.
  • BEGON (Banish) - Instantly kill monster of lower level. Add their level to max health.
  • CRAMBLEDEG (Warp world) - Scramble the dungeon. (Generate a new dungeon layout with the same number of monsters, shops, runes, etc. as the present.) Vanishes after one use.
  • TOKIWOTOMARE (Time Stop) - Your next attack is completely unopposed. (Special monster abilities such as blink and life steal also turn off for the duration.) The strain on your body permanently reduces you damage bonus by 10%.
    • Too harsh a penalty, isn't it?
  • NOTUITZME (Polymorph) - Transform monster into random monster of the same level.
    • Ooh, awesome.
  • GLOINZADARK (Destruction) - Cause mass destruction centered on you. (Destroys all walls, shops, altars and floor objects within 3 tiles. Monsters 1 tile away take 6 * level damage, 2 tiles away take 4 * level damage, 3 tiles away take 2 * level damage. You go to 1 life.) Vanishes after one use.
  • SLEPOVREZN (Monster Migration) - Create new monster of level 1 to 9 somewhere in dungeon.
  • CUMONDEN (Enhance Monster) - Level up target monster.
  • IZALWAZRITE (Summon Store) - Summon a phantasmal merchant. (One chance to purchase a random item.)
  • BULKUP (Enhance Strength) - Increases base damage and max health by 1.
    • Uh, is there a limit to this?

When I killed my first boss, I wasn't sure what to do next and spend several minutes clicking around before realising I should 'retire'. It would have been nice if the retire button was replaced with 'victory!' in those circumstances.

I'd love to be able to use the arrow keys to navigate! -- 99.238.53.245 16:58, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

yes. Please.

Achievements: GODLESS - Follow no deity. AGNOSTIC - Follow all three available gods in a single run. SKIMMER - Reveal less than 50% of the map.

Much like how vampires follow Dracul for free, Binlor should do something special for dwarves who follow him. Neongrey 03:11, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

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