|The following page is an archive of the Brainstorming article, including contents up to November 24,2010. Please do not make changes to this page. If you would like to start or add to a discussion please see the current article.|
Suggestions about this wiki
Some of these suggestion pages need to be cleaned out or archived. The majority of entries are suggestions, bugs, and issues from prior versions that are no longer relevant to the game. These pages are currently so large that no one would notice a new addition without checking the page history log, and as a result are borderline useless.--Darvin 20:56, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
dislekcia: Can we put in a picture of the game and a link to the latest version in the "Welcome" area? I can't see how to edit that...
- Well, I've added the front-page link, but you're going to have to either upload the image or enable external image linking ($wgAllowExternalImages) for me to do the screenshot. - Chippit 09:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
salejemaster: I'm not sure how to do this but we should somehow change the screenshots that are posted here in the tigdb http://db.tigsource.com/games/desktop-dungeon to screenshots from .5 because the new tile set is much better then the old one, and you know how graphics matter to people, if anyone has any info on how to do this please post :)
DGM: For the wiki itself, a section for the spells should be added. Also, Glitterfingers is missing from the gods section. For the game, here are some ideas for the deity system:
yidda: we should maintain distinct version information on the same page, like the Dwarf Fortress Wiki does: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Stockpile So if you go to the Gods page, you can click on the older DD versions to see what they used to do. this would also work for pages like this one, so that we don't have suggestions for the old God system next to the new ones.
Suggestions for the game interface
Avoid math computations - Would it be possible to include a number amount for the damage increase in the tooltip of Bysepps (and in other similar situations)?
Almost: Some indication or acknowledgement of the thief's first attack bonus or the berserker's bonus damage when attacking higher level monsters when hovering the mouse over them would be nice.
- Account for damage reduction when showing how much damage enemies do.
- Resistances are a pain to the mental math, how about displaying the actual numbers, for example, if I'm a monk, a monster's rollover would say "Attack:41 (20)" Admittedly it's easy for monks, but when dealing with 30% resistances, that is harder.
- Agree. This applies to both the damage the monsters will deal to you after Monk bonus, Tower Shields, etc. and the damage you'll deal to them after their resistances, your Berserker bonus, etc. This can either shown in the monsters Health Line or next to your attack value. --Twinge
Would it be possible to include an icon somewhere to show what glyphs are active? I can't count the number of times I've died because I assumed CYDSTEPP was on when it was not. --W4ffl35
Show which classes finished a dungeon - Stormy: What about highlighting the classes who beat a particular dungeon. Just like it's currently done with the standard dungeon, but extended to the others, when the cursor hovers over the buttons.
- On the main menu, rather than having to look at the rollover text to see if you've beaten a challenge with a class, instead give the dungeon selection buttons boarders like the class selection buttons get after beating the normal dungeon. Also, give the transmuter et al. classes boarders after beating the normal dungeon, don't leave them out.
Can I suggest a menu redesign with a 'Go!' button, as opposed to simply clicking on the dungeon you want? That way, you can select each dungeon by clicking on it and the borders will show up around all the classes you've beaten it with for the dungeon you currently have selected. It'd streamline that aspect a bit.
Rand-seed - Almost: If it's possible, generate dungeons from a seed number, and allow the player to replay maps by giving it the seed again or challenge a friend to do better than they did on that map. Maps from any mode could be replayed in such a manner, but completion of these maps would not count for unlocking stuff or highscores. This would also allow players to retry a map that they think they could've done better on and attempt more ideal solutions while learning how to play.
- Seconding this, and display the seed number during the game. That way we can always recreate the game when someone posts a screenshot and asks questions about it.
- Seconded, but don't count a seeded game as a normal game, since a player could cheat by doing the same dungeon several times.
Picking up blood not compulsory Perhaps the Bloodmage and Vampire should have the option to pick up blood patches, or not. Perhaps it could be done via the glyph interface. Of course, if a summoned monster dies on a glyph, then I suppose that could lead to trouble.
- I'm not sure, I think it's an important bit of strategy, that you have to plan out where you stand. Neongrey 14:21, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Victory - When I killed my first boss, I wasn't sure what to do next and spend several minutes clicking around before realising I should 'retire'. It would have been nice if the retire button was replaced with 'victory!' in those circumstances.
Arrow keys - I'd love to be able to use the arrow keys to navigate! -- 220.127.116.11 16:58, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
- yes. Please.
- Numeric keypad!
Class description - mtarini: I think it is a pity that the one-line descriptions of the classes are only visible once, when you unlock them (the ones like "rogue: a class that specializes at avoiding taking damage"). Can we see them, maybe in smaller font and italics, when we roll over? BTW it the "three traits" system with traits name is very sweet. Mtarini 19:30, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Fresh game start - Currently, when the game just first start, you have two dungeons: "normal" and "snake pit". I would leave only "normal" for the first runs, until you win that one once. It just looks nicer... more "fresh and immediate" for newbie players. --Mtarini 23:21, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Tooltip - Position: I frequently hover over my character to remember the information the tooltip shows. However this tend to cover other interesting stuff, like adjacent monsters, which is mildly annoying. A possible solution could be to (a) move the tooltip when it's closer than 2-3 squares from the character; (b) include that information (current effects, traits) in the area below the runes.
Information: instant death protection is not taken into account on a monster's tooltip. --Lejonmanen 09:25, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Suggestions for the Gods system
1) Dracul rejects Priests. Should the Glowing Guardian accept Assassin followers? It seems out of character, and it's a cheap way to steamroll the Assassin/Crypt challenge.
- Seems TGG is pretty forgiving to me (more generous than the god they're copied from anyway!) - if you are an Assassin that isn't using poison, they're fine with it I think. On the same topic, though, I think TGG altars shouldn't even spawn in the Crypt, because it basically makes it an auto-win for any class. --Twinge
- Agreed. By the same token, altars to Dracul shouldn't spawn in the crypt (unless it were to be included as a fourth "atmosphere" altar) due to his literally total uselessness there. --MrGuy 15:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
2) Binlor Ironshield gives the wall-buster spell when you convert to him. This should be used for other gods: Mystera Annur should give Fireball since her worshipers are helpless without it, and the Earthmother should give the stoning spell.
- Earthmother *does* give IMAWAL... providing it doesn't already exist. Binlor is the same way with the ENDISWAL Glyph: if it already exists, he won't create it. And that leads nicely to Mystera: BURNDAYRAZ is guaranteed to appear on every map anyways. All this said, it wouldn't be a bad idea to move the Glyphs to the player's feet when they convert to these gods --18.104.22.168 15:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
3) Speaking of the Earthmother and the stoning spell, she's lame mostly because the spell is lame. It denies you experience and doesn't clear obstacles out of the way; it has no use except to make her happy and her reward isn't good enough. I suggest having the spell only work on monsters below your level, but count as a regular kill (giving experience, triggering rewards/punishments from the gods, etc.). This would make it useful in its own right and make the Earthmother less painful to follow.
- Rather than change the mechanic of the god and render the special Gorgon class somewhat irrelevant, why not just change the reward? +1HP per level per enemy petrified, perhaps. Or +1HP per monster level. -ChaoSpectre
- The Earthmother giving regular XP for stone kills seems quite fair, as it balances with you not being able to take those stones out of the way.
- Some wild ideas --Lejonmanen 09:41, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
- a) EM doubles MP recovery when exploring
- b) Petrifying a monster regenerates MP equal to monster level
- c) Each time a monster would petrify you, EM kills the monster and gives you +10% physical damage resistance (stone skin)
- d) EM gives another rune (LEMMETRU) that creates a "tunnel", preserving the rock but enabling the hero to go through, for a cost of 1 permanent HP per level
- e) Petrifying monsters creates a "tunnel" instead of a solid wall
- f) "Knowledge of earth" - can see walls 3 tiles away without revealing. Like the eye of scouting, but only for walls
- g) Destroying ENDISWAL glyph should please her.
4) Glitterfingers just helps you get money, right? You can stockpile money easily enough anyway. How about having him spawn some potion shops to spend it on?
- How about if Glitterfingers removed the cap on gold for that run only? If you had more than the max at the end of your run, then it would be reduced to the max. 22.214.171.124 16:21, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- He could certainly use something - right now he's vaguely useful to grind up some gold slightly faster between real games, and even then mostly only if you don't have Goblin unlocked. Giving 2 gold per kill instead of 1 - and maybe also removing the cap as mentioned above - probably still doesn't actually make him useful, but would be a start I guess. Glittergfingers should probably be revamped completely, but that can wait until the whole gold system is revamped.
5) Right now there's not much reason to renounce a god except to see what happens. I'd like the option pick a god from the start (like race and class) instead of spawning random alters, so why not use the god's curses as part of another unlock system? If you level up at least, say, 5 times AFTER earning a god's disfavor and still win the game, you get the option to start with him as your deity. As an adjunct to this, let the player brick an alter with the stone spell or shatter it with the wall-buster spell as a way of angering the deity.
- renouncing a God serves the purpose of being able to worship another one --Mtarini 17:04, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
- I was also able to renounce just to convert a glyph into a potion so that I had enough life to kill a boss.--Sxerks 02:22, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
6) Fizanko: to make every gods more usefull and varied, maybe having them spawning a glyph or a new trait for the player, unique to them after the player successfully attacked and destroyed the other deities altars, giving alternatively an incentive for the player to explore the whole dungeon to find every altars. Could then be used to balance the less interesting gods by having them spawning a more interesting glyph/trait.
7) Mystera Annur is absolutely terrible. The mana bonus can be useful, sure, but reducing your attack power to one is absolutely crippling, especially given that BURNDAYRAZ is much weaker than the standard melee attack even for your average wizard. Either lower the damage penalty, or have Annur increase the power/decrease the cost of BURNDAYRAZ. --MrGuy 15:46, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
8) I would like it if the game either let you know which altars are available on the map or let you choose that a certain altar will appear on the map. I'm trying to clear the Factory with a Wizard, and from what I can figure, you pretty much need Mystera Annur to lower magical resistance so you can win. If I don't find a Mystera Annur altar, I'm just going to retire without trying. If I could know ahead of time whether that altar exists in the dungeon, it will save me time playing maps where it doesn't exist Cyrai 19:49, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
- Or as an alternative, let players choose which god they serve before the game begins. As it is, each character goes into the dungeon as "atheist," including priests, who by definition must serve a god in order to receive their divine powers. --KenLaird
Suggestions for the Scoring system
rickgriffin: Thoughts about the high score board:
1) Include which boss was defeated on the run.
- Agreed. Also what god they were worshiping, if any. --Twinge
2) Besides the top score board, also have separate boards for each class, so people have a reason to have high score runs without just selecting the 'best' class/race.
- Ideally there wouldn't be any clear best combos, and I think that is the goal down the road; there may be some combos that suck, but there shouldn't be any that dominate ranked games (I'm looking at you, Vampire & Human Rouge/Monk!) Not that having separate charts for each class would be a bad thing, I'm just saying the bigger issue is one of overall balance =) --Twinge
- What about also having top score boards for each of the challenge dungeons, as well? Neongrey 21:04, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- Now that I think about it, having a score breakdown would be a neat thing too, so you could see what all contributed to a high score. 126.96.36.199 13:28, 21 March 2010 (UTC) (rickgriffin)
3) Berserkers wish to die in battle. When playing as a berserker, get a bonus for dying and a sizable penalty for retiring. --Egasimus 20:32, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
4) Have an off-line high-score table.--Egasimus 20:32, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
5) Damage dealt being a part of the scoring system should probably be capped, or removed entirely. As it stands, the maximum bonus for speed (an instant win) would be 60 * 3 * 15 = 27,000. The difference between a one minute win (impressively quick) and a two minute win (not bad) is only 1800 points. On the other hand, the max bonus earned by maximizing damage dealt (bringing all monsters to low hp, exploring to heal them, etc.) is literally over a hundred thousand, and easily achievable with a level 1 Human Sorcerer (infinite casts of 4 damage fireball, not "skill"). I feel like ending up with a mid-to-low tier high score somewhat detracts from the impressiveness of doing the entire dungeon in under a minute. Some quick ideas at other way of calculating scores:
- Score could be based entirely off 'moves made' (the fewer tiles traveled / clicks before killing the boss, the better)
- Have "lightning short" times give exponentially more points (Maybe start with a x 9 modifier to the time score, and every 30 seconds it drops by x1)
- Classify scores by "games under 5 minutes", "games under 10 minutes", etc.
- Break ranked mode into multiple modes, where scoring is done differently in each (a "speed runs" dungeon, a "fewest moves" dungeon, a "maximum damage" dungeon where monsters don't heal, etc.)
- It seems odd that ranked dungeons are randomly generated at all. The dungeon arrangement has a huge influence on a player's max potential score. Varuka
Suggestions for the glyph system
1) Certain glyphs - mainly the three teleportation spells - are vastly inferior to most other glyphs. Rather than try to make all spells equally useful, though, I suggest dividing glyphs into two categories: Master glyphs and Apprentice glyphs. Master glyphs would work as glyphs do now. Apprentice glyphs would be weaker and/or more costly and would give no bonus on conversion, but each game some of them would spawn next to the player's starting position. This would balance the glyphs and help eliminate hopeless starts.
- I like that there are random difficult starts. Don't turn in into a chess solitaire. ----
2) To go with the above idea, here's a suggested new spell: DUNBEESHOKD (Lightning Bolt) - 4 Mana. Deals 2 damage per player level to a monster. This would be an apprentice version of Fireball, suitable for giving to the player from the start in case they want to go the pure magic route.
3) Suggestions for specific spells:
....BLUDTUPOWA needs work. How about letting it turn a health potion into a mana potion instead? That would make it more generally useful while keeping with the Blood Mage's health-for-power theme.
....WEYTWUT teleports you somewhere useless or dangerous too often. How about having it only take you to shops, glyphs and alters? Or at least making it send you somewhere you haven't already explored?
....I already discussed fixing IMAWAL when I talked about the Earthmother earlier, but I'll repeat it here for completeness: restrict it to enemies below the player's level, but let it count as a normal kill for reward/penalty purposes.
....make LEMMESEE work as an eye of scouting until the player attacks a monster. Or make it scout only nearby interesting stuff (monsters, shops, altars and runes) without displaying what they are (use a question mark icon) -Lejonmanen
Limiting WEYTWUT to unexplored area would be a definite plus.
Rename BURNDAYRAZ. I understand and like all other glyph names. BURNDAYRAZ, however, I didn't decode until I came to this wiki! To me, it looks like either "Burned a Raise" or "Burn Day Raze", neither of which makes sense. Alternative suggestions: BABIKIU, TOSTOR, OOELDUNN, FIYABUNN (the last has a nice Jamaican twang to it). --Rsl12 23:02, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
Difficulty: After getting pretty good at the game with certain strategies, the fun becomes beating certain dungeons with certain classes. I thought it'd be cool if it'd be possible to add some ability to increase the difficulty independently of class/race/dungeon, by adding bonus settings to place more (or bigger) bosses, or options to remove shops, not heal when exploring, etc.
OpenSource? DGM: Nandrew, I assume you're reading this since I got the link for this wiki from you. Are you going to share the source, so we can play with ideas you reject? Failing that, would you use the discussion page and comment on which ideas being presented here that you're considering using? I've got more ideas for the glyph system I suggested, but there's no point in talking about it if it will never be implemented.
Randomness - Jabberwock: One suggestion for the dodge - as it seems it is one of very few random elements after the game starts (maybe beside the Imp teleports), it is a little bit out of place. What if the order of the enemy miss was predetermined instead of random? That is, one of the five enemy hits misses - I receive hit no.1, 2 etc., and the no. 5 always misses... Would certainly make it more strategic.
Minimum gold - fall_ark: This might sound a little cheap but... how about adding a "minimum gold" bonus? Or change the saved gold system as a whole. I mean, after unlocking the Goblin race it becomes super easy to gain 50~70 gold in a few minutes, and before that I used to choose rogue to do some rounds of hoarding...It just feels a bit tedious. Or I'm just lazy and spoiled...
- I would like that your max gold go to full inbetteen rounds, basicly I max my gold with the goblin/trasmutat and just hit "retire" , doing this meny times can max gold - but - shouldnt the game just do this automaticaly "max" my gold since i can do this trick anyway?
- On the contrary - on retiring without beating the dungeon boss, you shouldn't be able to keep all your gold. Hoarding sessions seem a bit unfair to me.--Egasimus 19:53, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
- I totally agree! What a waste of time. If you do have to do this use Goblin Wizard...--Greatdiwei 07:09, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
ports - There really should be a /iTouch version of Desktop Dungeons. I think it would be awesome on the platform. Dont know how hard to port it is but you know, a suggestion:D zreaperz-
- or even for Android. It is definitly the kind of time sink i'd love to have in my pocket
- It would definitely work well on a handheld.
- What about an ? The is desperately needing a good roguelike :) --Greatdiwei 07:09, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
- It would definitely work well on a handheld.
- Any chance of a version for OS X?
Other Dungeon Bosses Rather than just level 10 enemies, how about in some harder modes, the actual gods are in the dungeon to fight? or maybe there could be a mode for that. Simply because stumbling in on Taurog for example would be a totally kickass moment. --RocketShark 12:56, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Monster Tiles: Might I suggest arbitrarily grouping different types of monsters into a tileset and then assigning a set randomly to a spawned dungeon? eg group off a set of 5-10 enemies... lets say in this case Orcs, Goblins & Ogres. Instead of the dungeon being populated with every enemy in the game, which gets increasingly bizarre with the number of available foes; This adds a lot more cohesion with very little spent in gross resources. --TokinAtheist 2 August 2010
Placement biased tile sets: Also I think it would do wonders for the game visually if the tiles in the dungeon had a placement bias. This trick can be done with very few lines of code and streamlines the appearance of the dungeon. It requires more work on behalf of the tile set authors but also gives them a lot more flexibility and control over the finished product. --TokinAtheist 2 August 2010
Keybindings? Self-explanatory. I'm just used to using the ASWD keys to move in nearly every other game I've played.
Suggestions for Objects / Shops
"Dungeons and Dragons basic player manual" - after you buy this (expensive) object, you gain one extra EXP for each GOLD you collect! :-D --Mtarini 22:59, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Suggestions for the classes
Religion oriented class? - It seems to me that the three current special classes could appear as Tier 4 classes.
- the "Transmuter" belongs to "Wizards",
- the "Crusader" belongs to "Fighters",
- the "Tinker" belongs to "Thieves".
That leaves the "Priest" line open for a new character: GOOD! because it is about time to have a Religion oriented class. Maybe one that senses altars, starts with an extra altar, and can belong to two religions (or, maybe, can get away with changing religions at any time). --Mtarini 22:25, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Tiers 5 classes?
- Thieves -> Ninjas, specialized at stealth (see below)
- Fighters -> Man-at-arms, specialized at armours (physical protection)?
- Priests -> Disbeliver, specialized against religions? (someway)
- Wizards -> Alchimist, specialized at potions?
- or maybe
- Wizards -> Archmages: 2 MP regeneration, negative protections (take double phys damage), 0 start attack?
just brainstorming...--Mtarini 22:25, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Special Class for defeating Lothlorien All that hard work should be rewarded :) --Greatdiwei 07:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Ninjas - "a stealth assassin that acts in shadows" [class porposal]
They have a glyph that allows them to go stealth mode: in that mode, they explore the dungeon NOT revealing anything, but leaving stuff in shadow instead (just as the half-dragon's extended view radius, but at radius 1 not 2). So they sense monsters and stuff at radius 1, but cannot see what it is. That should feel like they are acting in total shadow. The very square they are in, the one "at radius 0", is the only square being actually explored. Ninjas can attack a monster in shadow (not knowing what it actually is - risky!), gaining first strike, huge bonuses, and some 50% chance of monster being "dazed" and not fighting back for that round. The monster (if survives) is then revealed anyway. If the ninja would be killed in response, it gets out of stealth mode with 1 HP instead (and, if appropriate, poisoned, mana burned, or even turned into stone, etc). One can get out of stealth mode anytime by clicking on the glyph again (at no costs).
Completing with the ninja might unlock the stealth glyph for other classes as well, but only the ninja should get the extra bonuses. So ninja would have, as traits: (1) starts with that glyph, (2) bonuses when attacking an unrevealed monster, (3) survives if killed by that monster. For other characters, attacking in stealth mode would be very very riscky (well, it would prevent life stealth from vampires, if they are killed).
However stealth-mode is useful and powerful, for anyone, as it allows one to preview things but waste very little "explored space". This could be balanced by negating the MP regeneration and/or one point of HP regeneration for the only square that is actually fully revealed (the one where the player is). The cost of activating the glyph itself should be 0.
--Mtarini 22:25, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Going4Paladin: The monk needs a buff, his last 2 skills are lovely, but when he loses half attack, he has nothing to kill with.... maybe he needs a poison immunity???
- The monk really doesn't need a buff. His DIAMOND BODY skill already allows you to take half damage from the start, and you're doing half damage to the enemy, so fights tend to simply take twice as long. But HAND TO HAND just has your Damage Bonus start at -50%. Each Attack Powerup you find or Glyph you convert as a Human increases this by 10%. So after 5 Glyphs/Powerups, you're back to base damage, whilst your enemies are still doing half damage to you.
- The net result of these two abilities is that every boost to Damage Bonus has *double* the effect than for other characters, and that's one hell of a buff. The same applies to any extra Physical or Magical Resistance items you may eventually find in the shops: they provide twice as much help to the Monk because his resistance is already so high.
- So yes, while he can be a little difficult to work with at Level 1 due to damage being rounded down, he swiftly gets much stronger as you gain sources of Damage Bonus. And his enhanced Health Regen makes hit and run tactics much much easier. --188.8.131.52 05:48, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Fizanko : i agree with DGM up there, i believe IMAWALL is in a need of a rework in my opinion, as in its current status it brings no advantage in comparison to every other glyph that cost a base 5 mana or even less, as by using it not only you deny yourself the xp of a petrified monster (and in Desktop Dungeons you need every xp you can) but by mistake you can block you own way.
The only use is for The Earthmother deity, but still i don't see the +1 HP gain to balance the xp you will not get from the petrified monster and the blocked path it creates, or just converting it for a bonus.
I can see and understand that to be a difficult glyph to balance, but i think it should count for a kill (so delivering the xp) when used for monsters that are below your own level (so you can't use it on a boss to get an "easy win"), or making it only in a limited amount of use so you can't overuse it.
To round out the tier 1 classes, how about showing the locations of the altars to the priest, and the stores to the thief?
- I can see the benefits/symmetry there, but I find thieves to be pretty awesome already, and I can see the effective playstyle of priests, so I dunno if this is really needed.
Okay, maybe I'm just bad at using them, but bloodmages strike me as pretty terrible. I can see where the devs were going with it, but it starts with a glyph that can only be used effectively by one class (and not even well by the bloodmage!), an ability that the vampire already gets and can make way better use of, and a boost to mana potions that also carries a cost in health that negates the benefit from blood pools anyway. So I think we need to replace the tier 3 wizard class.
- The class should have a playstyle centered around a glyph of some sort, which is unlocked for other classes upon winning and should ideally be usable by anyone.
- The class should also have a playstyle that focuses on glyph usage, in keeping with wizards and sorcerers.
- I'll put down a few ideas that sound awesome in my head right now, feedback on any (or more suggestions) would be super appreciated:
- Enchanters, which start with the DINTURT glyph (-20% to enemy's next attack), use less mana to cast glyphs that give bonuses like GETINDARE, BYSSEPS, and such, and gets higher attack boosts per level at the cost of lower health boosts per level.
- Occultists, which start with the BIYAPAL glyph (cast on a monster to have it assist in your next attack if it can move next to a monster, expensive and only affects one monster at a time), can move through monsters, and has lower damage to start with.
- Wild mages, which start with the WUTZINDABOCKS glyph (low cost, random glyph effect), generate 1 more of either shops, potions, or glyphs, and have a slight chance to use up no mana in casting a spell.
Some more Random idea:
Other Offensive spells (Difficult to implement, because the fireball is pretty well balanced at the moment) Have 1 off glyphs that can be cast once, so a big Fireball explosion, maybe 12 damage per level for example?
Have an offensive spell that either ties in with Max Mana, or your attack Power...?
A spell like poison, maybe "STASIS" that binds the enemy and as you explore the dungeon it loses health. Although this would be like poison, maybe to balance it you lose health as well?
Make a class like a thief or ranger, that does ranged damage. How i see this working would be 1 "free" attack before the monster retaliates and fights back. Conversely some monsters could have the "Cover or Awareness" ability that counters this.
- The problem with this is that it's essentially equivalent to attacking and having first strike on your last hit - either way it's a sequence of blows where you hit them one more time than they hit you. It's a different implementation of a mechanic already in game. --Patashu 15:01, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
There are classes that only use the health stat and not mana, how about the other way around? SO only mana? Maybe an Angel, or Elemental? Also for these classes have them do something usefull with the Mana or Health potions/Power ups..
Other random ideas:
Wildmage: When you use a mana potion you get a random effect.
Quests and multiple ending solutions
I might be fun and had some tactical challenges to had some basic quest with different ways to kill it. For example for a zombie game I made to win you can either : - Survive the zombies untill the morning (implies lots of barricading and fighting) - Break the charm causing them to appear (implies to be lucky enough to find a specific object, travel a bit in a dangerous house and get exposed to danger for a while) You could have here: - Save the child haunted by a deamon. Either kill the deamon (easy and brutal), or find a way to cast exorcism (should require some object and be more subtle and tricky to apply. For example every new level you get he is surrounded by nasty creatures you have to fight) - The war. there are 2 different armies on the field. Your target is to kill the boss who is the leader of one army. you can either kill him, or kill all is army, and the other, (if you killed none of them) would kill themselves the boss ...
If might be even better if the targets and different path are discovered in game, with a bit of randmoness.
Achievements: This game needs something to keep us addicted after getting the last unlock. The high score list won't do it for all players, but an achievements list would. It also provides a handy point system for a 'trait' system.
Traits: Let players select benefits and penalties before each match. This can require 'points' (A certain number to start with, with more available as you complete achievements, or simply one point per dungeon beaten with each class) have an impact on the final score, or both. Example: Jerry selects four traits before his game. Heavy Handed, Explorer, Blackballed, and Veteran. Heavy Handed prevents him from gaining any Dodge or First Strike abilities, but doubles damage dealt to creatures below level 5. (Score x 1) Explorer adds 50% to health regeneration and +1 to mana regeneration from exploration. (Score x0.5) Blackballed removes all shops from the map. (Score x1.25) Veteran adds +1 xp per kill, as per the Fighter trait. (Score x0.8) Jerry finishes the map with a score of 28000. After multipliers, he is awarded a final score of 14000 to submit to the leaderboards.
Brainstorming new glyphs:
- IPHEELWEEK (Weaken) - Lower monster's attack power by 10%.
- WARIZHEL (Mass Charm) - Every monster makes an attack on an adjacent monster. (High-level monsters act first, targeting the lowest-level monster they can reach.)
- HIVOLTIJ (Chain lightning) - Deals 3 damage per level and leaps to any adjacent monsters.
- IKANSI (Selective Amnesia) - Unexplore twelve random tiles. (12 == casting cost.)
- A wizard could cast this, explore the tiles (possibly with LEMMISI) and regen hp AND be one mana up. Also consider that there's an item that doubles your mana regen, and I don't think a glyph like this is workable. --Patashu 15:01, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
- BEGON (Banish) - Instantly kill monster of lower level. Add their level to max health.
- CRAMBLEDEG (Warp world) - Scramble the dungeon. (Generate a new dungeon layout with the same number of monsters, shops, runes, etc. as the present.) Vanishes after one use.
- What about the state of visible/invisible tiles? Sounds like it would be either broken or...weird. --Patashu 15:01, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
- TOKIWOTOMARE (Time Stop) - Your next attack is completely unopposed. (Special monster abilities such as blink and life steal also turn off for the duration.) The strain on your body permanently reduces your damage bonus by 10%.
- Again, very similar to first strike. --Patashu 15:01, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
- NOTUITZME (Polymorph) - Transform monster into random monster of the same level.
- GLOINZADARK (Destruction) - Cause mass destruction centered on you. (Destroys all walls, shops, altars and floor objects within 3 tiles. Monsters 1 tile away take 6 * level damage, 2 tiles away take 4 * level damage, 3 tiles away take 2 * level damage. You go to 1 life.) Vanishes after one use.
- When would you use this? --Patashu 15:01, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
- SLEPOVREZN (Monster Migration) - Create new monster of level 1 to 9 somewhere in dungeon.
- Desktop Dungeons is meant to be about scarcity - this gets you something useful for almost nothing. Even if it's not something you can beat now, it'll be something you can beat later. --Patashu 15:01, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
- CUMONDEN (Enhance Monster) - Level up target monster.
- IZALWAZRITE (Summon Store) - Summon a phantasmal merchant. (One chance to purchase a random item.)
- BULKUP (Enhance Strength) - Increases base damage and max health by 1.
- INRI (Holy Symbol) - Drive monster back with 50% knockback damage, or 100% against undead.
- ZENERCARD (Clairvoyance) - Detect the location of any items and monsters within 3 tiles.
- NOUSIIT (Invisibility) - Gives 50% dodge chance for your next action.
- GODLESS - Follow no deity.
- AGNOSTIC - Follow all three available gods in a single run.
- SKIMMER - Reveal less than 50% of the map.
- PACIFIST - Killed boss but more than half of total monsters alive.
- THRIFTY - Didn't visit store.
- SCROOGE - Exited dungeon with 30 or more gold then you entered with.
Much like how vampires follow Dracul for free, Binlor should do something special for dwarves who follow him. Neongrey 03:11, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
The dungeon specific monsters (naga, imp, vampire and armour) are pretty fun guys, and it would be nice to see them in the main dungeon. Perhaps as a reward for beating their dungeon with [x] classes.
Petrification doesn't have any purpose but to please the Earthmother god. And the Earthmother doesn't have any purpose other than to make petrification useful. That's not good!
SIMPLE IDEA: Make petrification work in same way as a gorgon's death gaze: it counts as a kill in every way, but only works on monsters of less than some % health. Now it's a very situational assassination skill -- super-good against some bosses (like Super Meat Man) and super-bad against others (like Gharbad.)
But this doesn't help that the gorgon class' innate petrification is either trivial (so long as they keep their ENDISWAL glyph) or game-wreckingly harmful (if they don't.) So:
MORE COMPLEX IDEA: Stoned monsters become statues which the character can push around the dungeon sokoban style.
Love the game. Gushing aside, criticisms:
Classes: The best classes seem to be "mix" classes: thief and priest, for example. Classes that rely primarly on melee or magic (fighter, wizard) seem to have their work seriously cut out for them.
Fighter is awful, and could use a buff. Perhaps "regenerate" his death save? (every 5 kills?) Wizard is poor, even with the -1mp: largely because (imo) the only way to kill things with magic is fireball, and at high levels fireball does not scale well at all. Perhaps this more an issue with fireball, though. Vampire is ungodly powerful, largely down to it having fireballs out the wazoo. Perhaps remove its ability to use magic? (and give it a buff somewhere else?) Crusader seems weak to me... probably because momentum caps out. I have a hellish time defeating bosses with crusader, because after the first hit, damage drops significantly. Also, fireball causes momentum to reset - not sure if thats intended, but it renders fireball pretty much useless.
Glyphs: PISOF and WEYTWUT are both pretty much useless (unless you get trapped, but even still, id rather have pretty much anything else). IMAWAL as noted many times above, is awful. Other people have good suggestions. LEMMISI, even with the trick, I feel is underpowered: largely because once you run out of spaces to explore, it becomes useless. Perhaps reduce the MP cost to 1? Incidentally, it also causes vampire life leech to trigger. Not sure if thats meant. APHEELSIK makes or breaks games, for many classes. Taking down Super Meat Man (or many others) becomes trivial with poison: if you dont have it, it becomes incredibly difficult (in some cases impossible - try take down Super Meat Man with a wizard, for example). As a possible alternative to messing around with poison, nerfing Boss Regen rate may help "fix" several aspects of the game. BLUDTUPOWA is awful at high level. ~16 health for 1 MP is a rip. Increasing the MP gain or reducing the health drained (perhaps by half) would make it less awful, and would buff magic users. BURNDAYRAZ as mentioned above, doesnt scale well. Magic users generally feel gimped as a result. BYSSEPS could probably do with a "fail" if already cast. Not really important.
Bosses: Some bosses seem significantly easier than others. Part of the problem is what boss you get randomly assigned: perhaps thats just the nature of the game, but if i see a Tower of Goo as a melee class, I may as well just restart. Super meat man seems horrendously impossible without poison.
- it is not --Mtarini 19:41, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Other stuff: As others have said, having to farm between games is sucky and encourages grinding. Remove the gold cap, start off every game with the bonus you would've got for clearing the crypt multiple times, and dont have gold transfer. Also, rather than having certain squares cause popups (such as altars or bosses), why not have the information appear at the side (and disappear if you move away)? It seems to break the game, and after the 300th boss conversation, I dont really care what they have to say. (Also, I had to fight a boss who was beside an altar, using poison. Every time I moved beside him, I got an altar popup. Bleh)
Anyway, as I said, love the game and hope it continues to improve. --184.108.40.206 19:22, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
More people keeping an eye on spam and maybe only contributions for registered users. All this spam ;/
Should gorgons really still turn things to stone when they kill them with the fireball? They die from damage, not from the death gaze. Neongrey 14:21, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Lots of assorted ideas:
1. Slightly randomize the amount of goodies available in the dungeon. Perhaps one round there'd be one less gold pile and one more attack upgrade, or one less glyph and one more health potion, or an extra 5th level monster, or whatever. It makes it more interesting if two identical characters can reach the end game with different proportions. Naturally, there should be a wider variety of useful glyphs (I pretty much find myself using the fireball and poison above everything else) and gods (Enough gods are of dubious use to make it possible that I wouldn't want any of the gods) to supplement this.
2. I thought of a way to make PISOF useful:
2a. Have monsters guard the tiles around them, and if you try to pick up something off the floor next to them (or use an altar/shop next to them? (or attack an enemy next to them??)) they get an attack on you, either at full strength or at diminished strength and without their normal on-hit effects. That way you might want to teleport a monster away to get at its goodies scot free. Spend mana to save HP (or to not die) (or to not get poisoned).
2b. Generate the level such that monsters explicitly block the paths to caches of stuff, or prevent you from picking up stuff near them outright. (Perhaps only on the orthagonals?)
3. I thought of a way to make ENDISWAL...not useful, but preserve the feel of it:
Right now, it feels like it's an item that would have limited tactical benefit (grabbing bits of explore from the edges of the map, going around a monster blocking your way, etc.) but otherwise doesn't fit in the game, so a god has also been shoehorned in, but he doesn't make it too appealing either, what with gold being a mostly metagame material AND there being another gold-based god. Why not implement a system of doors, with keys lying around the map (or dangling off of enemy's belts in a tantalizing fashion), with various glyph/class/item assisted ways to pick, force or circumnavigate them? Then ENDISWAL would have a clear purpose (getting around doors), or it could be replaced with a specific make-the-door-go-away glyph. You'd need a smarter level generator to ensure that all levels would be reasonable even with doors, but I think a smarter level generator is a good goal to strive for anyway. You could even colour code keys, so that unnecessarily difficult monster is worth killing to get its goodie cache, or maybe the boss is hiding behind a door which its henchmen has the key to, or so on! Also, chests, mmm. Keys keys keys.
(Also, renouncing the Earthmother shouldn't turn EVERYTHING into stone, just drop enough stone to hamper your life unless you have teleportation or wall removal.)
4. I thought of a way to make WEYTWUT useful:
Make it a controlled teleport. Click a spot on the map, and the game will put you on the nearest open tile. Now you can use it to your advantage in conjunction with any way to sense monsters/glyphs. Might be interesting to consider other forms of detection to compliment this - perhaps a form of detection that reveals the 9 and 10 level monsters, or revealing all of X item, or all the altars...
5. I thought of a way to make IMAWAL useful:
Ditch the idea of it instakilling a monster. It's a nonsensical idea in a game where monsters only threaten you if you threaten them. Instead, it would be great if it did something to mitigate the amount of damage they could do to you - perhaps a -% damage increase that 'regenerated' either with every exchange of blows or with every tile explored.
6. In general, it'd be neat to vary the monsters up a bit more - I didn't realize so many of the monsters had the same 100% for one or both of the stats! If too many things share the exact same numbers, you run into a kind of 'threshold' problem: if your stats aren't quite high enough to surpass X barrier, they aren't helping at all, but as soon as they are you can go to town.
7. Glyph idea - X% physical or magical or both resist for your next hit only? Like a defensive BYSSEPS.
8. Some way to burn gold for a raw effect? Not sure if it'd be class or glyph related, but it'd make for a cool theme. I'm kind of picturing it being dragged onto the glyph exchanger to burn it for a stat boost ala the racial effects.
9. A race that can burn a glyph for a supercharged next hit - some combination of extra damage, resist and ignoring extra enemy effects. Picturing 'boss killer/level catapulter'. (Actually, talking about all this brings to mind the idea of having a 'damage potion' and a 'resistance potion' - or would that be two resistance potions? - to supplant the two current potions, but maybe that'd make things too homogeneous, so perhaps not.
10. How about an enemy with an innate chance to evade? I picture a cloud of bats for some reason. Maybe because they're Goddamned Bats.
11. The pathfinding should try and involve moving to hit a monster such that it reveals nearby tiles, because doing so is often unwanted behaviour.
12. Thinking about keys et all earlier got me onto the idea of traps - but is that too much of a jerk move for the game? I guess it'd be a fundamental mechanic change, so maybe not worth talking about.
--Patashu 14:23, 5 June 2010 (UTC)