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(Game Bugs: Interface disagrees with actual effect.)
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*Bug - Playing as Transmuter, I started worshipping Binlor. I got my piety up to 80, prayed for the level 10 boon, then proceeded to kill the boss. The game didn't tell me I had won, and retiring doesn't display Transmuter as a class that has finished the dungeon. I did this twice, once killing every creature but not killing the boss last, and once killing the boss last. Both times, the game didn't acknowledge my win. Not sure if this is a feature of the Binlor boon, or if Transmuter just doesn't display differently when it finishes the normal dungeon like the other classes, but it feels buggy, so I feel like I should say. [[User:Tomsmizzle|Tomsmizzle]] 15:01, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
*Bug - Playing as Transmuter, I started worshipping Binlor. I got my piety up to 80, prayed for the level 10 boon, then proceeded to kill the boss. The game didn't tell me I had won, and retiring doesn't display Transmuter as a class that has finished the dungeon. I did this twice, once killing every creature but not killing the boss last, and once killing the boss last. Both times, the game didn't acknowledge my win. Not sure if this is a feature of the Binlor boon, or if Transmuter just doesn't display differently when it finishes the normal dungeon like the other classes, but it feels buggy, so I feel like I should say. [[User:Tomsmizzle|Tomsmizzle]] 15:01, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
: Wait, you played normal dungeon? AFAIK, only base 12 classes get special marks after its completing; Transmuter, Crusader and Tinker aren't get any. Bonus classes get marks after Crypt, Library, Snake Pit and Factory
: Wait, you played normal dungeon? AFAIK, only base 12 classes get special marks after its completing; Transmuter, Crusader and Tinker aren't get any. Bonus classes get marks after Crypt, Library, Snake Pit and Factory
 +
 +
*Bug - Playing as a Half-Dragon worshiping Binlor, knocking an enemy into the wall gives the message "Binlor thinks your demolition efforts are very clever. (+1 piety)", but 2 piety is awarded.
===Other Game Issues (Balance, Interface, etc.)===
===Other Game Issues (Balance, Interface, etc.)===

Revision as of 21:29, 12 September 2010

Game Bugs

  • After finishing the game with the blood mage, you unlock BludTuPowa. BludTuPowa and Mysteria Annur => Instant win. This because activating/deactivating the glyph adds to your MA piety. In effect, you get all MA buffs for free at level 1.
This has been fixed as of v0.14.
  • I'm playing as a Human Warlord in the snake pit. My patron deity is The Glowing Guardian. I've got 56at, 84/84hp, and 8/13mp. I have the BURNDAYRAZ, CYDSTEPP, and LEMMISI spells. I've purchased an item that shows me enemy locations and there is one still hidden. The issue: using the LEMMISI spell does not recharge my MP at all.
Why would it recharge your MP? It costs 3 and reveals 3 tiles. You'll only get MP back if you're a wizard or have the item that doubles mana regeneration. --Patashu 23:02, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
  • I made my patron deity the Earthmother, then renounced my faith. In her rage she turned the level to stone. Then I tried to cast WEYTWAT to teleport to a random spot, and it hung indefinitely, unable to find an empty spot to send me.
Yup, it'd do that. Thanks for finding the edge case! --Dislekcia
  • I just finished a game in which I was able to cast LEMMISI without it costing any mana. I'm not sure if this is a bug or an effect from a god (I'm a noob), but I thought I should mention it anyway.
Ah, that's exactly how it's supposed to work. That's why you get a "Surprisingly Handy" award if you use it at least once...It might be better that you figure it out yourself. :)
  • Minor bugs with message displays and altars - 1) If you move on to an altar which also uncovers a boss at the same time, you'll only get the boss's speech and no altar message. 2) If you attack a monster on an altar (summoned by WONAFYT), you'll get the altar message and conversion opportunity without actually stepping on the altar (like the other altar bug below, this only happens if you haven't been to that altar most recently). The first issue arises with shops as well, but not the second. --Twinge
Just for the record: the attack-on-an-altar also occurs if the monster is there because of the knockback ability, not just from WONAFYT. And it looks like the same thing may happen for monsters on shops? --Tahnan
All attack-on-interactive element bugs should be solved in the new interface version. --Dislekcia
  • The Scouting Orb's description says it increases sight radius, but it does nothing if your sight radius is already above the normal (half-dragon). The description should probably say e.g. 'increases sight radius to 2 spaces' or something along those lines. --Twinge
  • Another bug: I fell into negative XP. I believe the bug is associated with the CYDSTEPP (survive next killing blow) rune, and possibly how it interacts with the Paladin's HP for killing undead ability. I'd just killed a level 5 wraith which was supposed to do enough damage to kill me (and removing my death protection), but instead my protection remained, my HP stayed the same (I think), and I went into negative XP. Later just messing around, I died and lost the protection, recast it with some mana potions, and died again and my XP finally fixed itself, jumping to level 6. Screenshot: http://it-is-law.com/dump/DD-NegXPBug.png --Twinge
I had the same thing happen, except with the Glowing Guardian Deity not the CYDSTEPP glyph. I think it has a problem trying to process all the events that occurred (the death of the monster, your not dying, gain of life, gain of attack, gain of exp, and/or anything else). So this may be possible with any character/race.
same- paladin orc with CYDSTEPP in the crypt. I think I got down to -28 xp before a save-vs-death finally realigned the numbers.--Sxerks 18:14, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Bug- by clicking on covered(black) areas you can find and get the deity dialog and worship without ever uncovering the block.--Sxerks 18:14, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
Specifically, this seems to happen after you just went to another altar. In this example: http://it-is-law.com/dump/DD-AltarBug.png if I go to the bottom right altar, I can then click on and activate the top left altar without traveling there. This does not seem to be the case for shops. This is likely related to the other altar bug I posted above. --Twinge
Awesome, more info helped us figure out what was up. Fixed. --Dislekcia
  • Bug? - Sorry if this is not the right place to report but can't see a better one. Getting error message "Unexpected error occured when running the game" immediately on launch, when trying to play on Netbook. Suppose it might be something to do with supported resolution (on this netbook, resolution is 1024x600). Or something else perhaps? --serioustiger 19:26, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
It runs fine on my netbook that runs at the same resolution, so it shouldn't be that. --Charcoal 00:41, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Getting the same error on a desktop system with Windows XP Pro SP3. Core2 Duo CPU, 2 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT running at 1280x1024, the game's folder is directly in the root of drive C: (C:\DeskDungeons_0051).
Hmmm. Could be some sort of GM bug, like not finding the right fallback version of DirectX or something. Unexpected errors usually happen in GM games when it tries to do something graphics card related and can't figure out how. Will probably turn on logging in the next version so that we can see what's up. --Dislekcia
  • Bug - I was standing on the HALPME glyph and accidently pressed WEYTWAT (teleport glyph). I got teleported but HELPME stayed in the "on the ground" slot. So i, being cheater am i, just happily added to my slots. ;)
It does seem to at least delete the glyph from the original spot, though. Alas, I was hoping it might be cloning it... but it's not. Neongrey 02:05, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Bug - I've not been able to get the game to run at all on my Windows XP system. It gives the loading screen, tells me it's loading stuff for about ten seconds, and then the screen simply closes itself with no error messages at all. I'm running a standard XP system (32 bit mode) in 800x600 resolution. Suggestions? Anyone else have the same problem?
Do you have DirectX installed? If so, which version? --Dislekcia
  • Bug - if you reveal a boss monster by going onto an altar or shop, the altar/shop prompt will be visible for a split second before it's replaced by the boss monster prompt. It would be slightly cleaner to not show the altar/shop prompt at all. --Patashu 15:03, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Bug - it is possible to 'phantom' attack an enemy, if you click an open tile, and before the move completely registers have your mouse over an enemy. It'll count as striking the enemy, and can even strike an enemy two or more tiles from where you actually clicked to! Very annoying to die to this. --Patashu 15:03, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Bug - I encountered a divide by zero error when playing through the Library as a human warrior. I was following Taurog as a deity, and I think the specific cause of the problem was selecting the Mageshield (correct name?) boon which reduced my maximum mana by 2 when my maximum was already only 2 points. The following error message was listed in the log that appeared, 4 times.
  ERROR in
  action number 1
  of Draw Event
  for object ManaDisplay:
  Error in code at line 28:
  fraction = Hero.mana / Hero.max_mana;
  at position 30: Division by 0.

--Xrobbedgex 19:21, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

  • Bug - The item "Stone heart" (2hp per level when destroying a wall) does not work for the Half Dragon knockback destroying a wall.--Sxerks 16:54, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
  • 0.415 - Warlord gets WONAFYT, not CYDSTEPP
  • Bug - Playing as Transmuter, I started worshipping Binlor. I got my piety up to 80, prayed for the level 10 boon, then proceeded to kill the boss. The game didn't tell me I had won, and retiring doesn't display Transmuter as a class that has finished the dungeon. I did this twice, once killing every creature but not killing the boss last, and once killing the boss last. Both times, the game didn't acknowledge my win. Not sure if this is a feature of the Binlor boon, or if Transmuter just doesn't display differently when it finishes the normal dungeon like the other classes, but it feels buggy, so I feel like I should say. Tomsmizzle 15:01, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Wait, you played normal dungeon? AFAIK, only base 12 classes get special marks after its completing; Transmuter, Crusader and Tinker aren't get any. Bonus classes get marks after Crypt, Library, Snake Pit and Factory
  • Bug - Playing as a Half-Dragon worshiping Binlor, knocking an enemy into the wall gives the message "Binlor thinks your demolition efforts are very clever. (+1 piety)", but 2 piety is awarded.

Other Game Issues (Balance, Interface, etc.)

  • I've played the new version extensively. I've unlocked everything and I have to say it's considerably worse than the last version. This version is all about luck and that doesn't make it much fun. There are far too many games that are unwinnable, and I'm not talking about the start (although that's a huge problem also). Too many classes depend on the right deity appearing. On that subject way too many of the deities are gimmicky and useless 90% of the time. Earthmother (can't kill natural creatures, who cares she's rubbish anyway), Tiki (must kill in one shot), tarog and bindor (no magic), etc. They all have something. This would be fine, if there were viable options for classes. A wizard with tarog or bindor is screwed--this is just one example. Retiring ad nauseum isn't much fun. Shops are useless--it's always the same crap, the good stuff never comes up--and because of the above deity problems, this can make or break a run.
    • I've got to concur with this assessment. Basically too many gods are useless, Dracul, Tiki etc. because they can't be used as part of a strategy, where you'll plan to get this glyph and do that and then boom you have some advantage, and the penalties they give are far greater than the benefits. I've successfully used the plantation boon at level 2, being sure not to lock myself in, but still not gotten enough of an advantage out of it to win the game. The new Pactmaker, on the other hand, is my bread and butter. Yidda 18:55, 20 August 2010 (UTC) -yidda
    • It used to be that I'd use Jehora, Taurog, Misteria, or Binlor etc. all the time. Now I only use the Pactmaker. -yidda Yidda 18:55, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
    • OK, after a little more play on the new version, I have successfully used Jehora, the Pactmaker, Taurog once or twice, and Dracul twice, once with the Vampire, and once without. I've also beaten the game as an atheist, but I think the other 5 Gods could use some spicing up. Yidda 03:06, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

These problems are magnified in the campaign. You put the classes in difficult maps, the first isn't too tough, but it still requires a good deity or lucky shop to get the health high enough to take a hit from the boss. It's the first one, not a big deal. But then you put the wizard in a terrible map. You almost require MA deity and the fireball glyph to stand a chance. This is frustrating, because you can play perfectly, and lose. This is terrible, terrible game design. Then, should the stars align, and you beat the dragon boss, you get yet another difficult dungeon where you need luck to get by. Three times lucky, with the wonky random rules you've got in place means that the game isn't rewarding at all. Why not let us pick the class and race like every other dungeon?

It just seems like you have all these great gameplay mechanics in place, but then because of your decisions on deity and shop rolls, you take them away from the player. Focus on rewarding player skill/strategy and less on lucky rolls and you'll have something here.

  • About Health and Attack powerups (the kind scattered about the dungeon): Can we get some explanation on these things? After noticing that the attack power up does nothing for a level 1 character, I've been holding off on getting them. Likewise, the health power ups give more health at higher levels. What I want to know is, should I hold off on getting them or do they scale to level even after you've gotten them? --golden_cow2
The attack power ups give you a 10% percentage bonus over your base damage per power up, so this extra damage will raise as your base damage does. So get them as soon as your strategy allows you. --Lanis
Likewise the health bonus also scales with your level (1 MAX HP per level, the same as Dwarf glyph conversion). No need to hold off. --fall_ark
The Health Bonus should probably be shown when you hover over your health as it does for damage, then, to at least partially clear up the issue. --Twinge
  • I've found it really evil that the Escape key closes the entire game instantly. I've already lost at least 2 characters from tapping escape trying to cancel a spell :/ (I'm aware right click cancels, but habits from other games don't die so easily...) --Twinge
Agreed. I lost 5 or so promising characters because of that. Changing the 'instant close' key to something like F12 and having the ESC key one ask if you want to exit would work better and without functionality loss. --Lanis
Agreed again. I just started playing and hit escape thinking it would be used for options or something and poof. Ugh.
More keyboard-friendly controls will certainly make the game better! e.g. Arrow keys for moving, 5/6 for potions, SPACE/ENTER/ESC for shop and altar conversations. So on. --fall_ark
Absolutely, I just listed the most pressing issue first =) Even if the mouse is still required in the end (though it probably doesn't need to be), numpad movement would be a definitely improvement. I'm thinking Y/N for shops and altars to make it clear what your selection is - though space could also default to a 'no' response. --Twinge
Wait. Instead of remapping the Escape key, just make it pop up a screen that asks if you really want to quit the game. Alternatively, make it so that holding down Escape for two seconds closes the whole application. --HydroKirby
I also like a full keyboard control, azeqdwxc for moving, keybinded potions, yay and nay etc. The only point of using the mouse would be, in some cases, to prevent the discovering of some tiles, but if you really want to it's still possible to put something like selecting a tile with arrow keys and enter to go there. Rex4 20:33, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
  • The current gold system is essentially a pointless grinding mechanic - after each game, load up Goblin Wizard or whatever, go grab some quick cash, then start playing again. I don't currently have a great idea to replace it with, but the implementation as-is adds unfun grinding time without adding any actual thought or decision to the process. --Twinge
Removing the shared gold between runs and making gold coins give you more gold depending on your race/class/max gold should be enough. Basically, a gold-hunting race/class combo should allow you to be able to buy one or two good items more than other classes under the same circumstances. Now not only this removes the gold grinding, but it'll allow people to use goblins for serious ranked games, for example. --Lanis
Concurred. I would suggest adding a "Minimum Gold" bonus (or simply replace the Max Gold bonus). There should still be a little room for gold hoarding for new players though, like Max Gold = Minimum Gold + 50 or something. --fall_ark
  • The chances of getting a completely unwinnable game are too high. If it happens occasionally that's fine, but right now it's fairly common and at least some check to help avoid these situations would be desirable. Example games:
http://it-is-law.com/dump/Unbeatable1.png
http://it-is-law.com/dump/Unbeatable2.png
http://it-is-law.com/dump/Unbeatable3.png
My proposal: map out the monsters and runes in area that can be reached by a new character during level generation; mapping should 'go through' level 1 and 2 monsters but treat higher level monsters as walls, so to speak. There must be one of: a) Any of the Passwall, Teleport Monster, or Teleport Self glyphs are reachable; b) At least five level 1 monsters available to fight; c) At least two level 1 monsters and one level 2 monster; or d) The Summon Monster glyph is reachable and at least five total level 1 monsters are on the board (if this is guaranteed already, simply make it a straight glyph check as with [a].)
The idea isn't to make it easier - just to remove impossible scenarios. You might still have to, say, use your starting health potion to take out a level 2 or whatever which is fine. This won't remove all unwinnable situations, but should remove a significant percentage of them without making anything easier the rest of the time. --Twinge
  • Worshiping Pactmaker as an unimproved Rogue results in instant death. Is this intended? --Azeltir
Pactmaker takes 5 Base Damage and 5 Max Health so an unimproved Rogue will indeed die instantly due to Health drop to zero. Most characters "unimproved" would be screwed though, since your base damage is now likely zero. --fall_ark
  • Nidhogg is supposed to be a dragon; the World Serpent is actually actually Jormungand. There's some Norse mythology for ya!
  • I bought the rebirth-item (Restore health to full) on a level 9 Human Crusader while having death protection up, and got healed no health at all. Afterwards I attacked the boss and died where 300% of my attack damage would've been enough to kill it, but I did not get the last-blow Crusaders are supposed to. --Amadi
  • Teleport Monster is just worse than Remove Wall; it costs more mana and can potentially relocate the monster somewhere inconvenient, while Remove Wall also has other benefits (such as opening up more total blocks that can be explored). I'd keep Remove Wall's 8 mana cost, but reduce Teleport Monster to 5.
  • Teleport Self is also weak, and primarily only useful for getting outside of an early-game bubble of high-level monsters; I think it would still be weak at 4 mana, but certainly a little more useable.
  • Blood to Power is rather weak at high levels (right now it seems primarily useful for Level 1 Sorcerers); it's a little less clean, but perhaps making the cost 1.5hp per level rounded up would work? (2/3/5/6/8/9/11/12/14/15 instead of 2/4/6/8/10/12/14/16/18/20) I'm not entirely happy with that change and there might be a better option, but that's all that comes to mind for it immediately.
  • Poison is clearly to strong as it stands, but merely raising the mana cost is not enough to properly balance it; something more fundamental needs to be changed to fix Poison.
  • Petrify isn't especially useful right now either, as it doesn't help you get past any monsters and it gives you no XP for kills. This, of course, also ties in with the usefulness of the Earth Mother God (which currently is primarily good for giving a Transmuter lots of blocks to heal from). One option would be to simply make petrify kills give you half the level of the monster you killed; this would probably require an additional restriction such as being unable to petrify anything more than 1 level above you? There's surely some other options here too, but it does need something to make it more appealing. It might also still count as a kill for Mystera since you are essentially killing with Magic (would need to be tested in-game for balance).
  • Monster balance {Twinge} - monsters should be fairly close in average power level so that games aren't randomly especially easy or hard simply due to the monsters that randomly spawned; obviously this will still vary quite a bit depending on class, but currently there are some monsters that clearly stand out as strong or weak in general:
  • Animated Armor - Should these be almost strictly killable by Fireball only? The damage might be lowered a bit (160% -> 150%) to make it at least somewhat feasible (though still painful) to kill them in melee. On a related note, XP Gains should perhaps have a stepdown or raise up less rapidly based on level; it is a neat trick to go from level 1 to 6 in a single kill, but is also pretty overpowered. The first 2 steps (+2 and +6) are perfect and should remain as is. Past that, perhaps a flat +4 (or even +6) bonus per level difference to prevent it from getting so high so quickly? I'd like to see fireballing a high-level animated armor remain good, just not insanely good.
  • Gorgon, Goat, Bandit, Imp (to a lesser extent) - The reduced health is a huge deal for these monsters; I love seeing these guys around because it's often trivial to kill one of these monsters 1, 2, or even 3 levels above me. Gorgons sound threatening at first, but in practice they are pushovers for almost all classes and merely serve as a lucky XP bonus (*worth noting is that they can be bothersome to some of the currently strongest classes like Vampire, but still generally aren't too threatening). Bandits are in the same camp; they have nasty side effects, but it's usually easy to set up the kill right before leveling and snag some bonus XP in the process. Imps are more minor since they're only in the Library and Blinking can be an effective escape at times. I'm thinking:
  • Gorgon: damage 100%->115%; this means they do enough damage to level 4-6 players (considering some levels of health boosts) to reduce them below half HP, making their death gaze more threatening; this emphasizes their special ability while making them a bit less of a pushover. Possibly increase health 70%->75%, but this is probably unnecessary with the damage increase.
  • Bandit & Imp: I love seeing Bandits right now because they're almost guaranteed bonus XP. Part of the problem is that their negatives are so strong that you only want to fight them to level up on, and then their reduced stats make it easy to do just that. 80%->85% health seems like a good idea here, though I haven't done the math to see exactly what situations this would affect. Likewise with Imp, simply boosting the HP one notch seems like a good change but it'd need to be tested (or numbers run) to say for sure.
  • Goat: This poor guy is a strictly worse Golem! This is clearly subpar. Even against spellcasters they're quite easy, because they are essentially 100%/100% ability-less mobs in that case. I'd probably look at raising the attack at least 100%->110% (possibly as high as 120%), and raise their health from 75%->80% to make their magic resist matter a little more (could bump the resist from 25% to 30% instead, though this means level 1 spellcasters get an especially big hit from the resist which may be fine). Even with these changes they'd be worse than golems in most cases, but it'd at least be a step in the right direction; they could be buffed again later if deemed appropriate.
  • Goo Blob - The strongest enemy in the game. Even most spellcasters are using enough physical attacks that these guys are somewhat daunting; to a pure melee character, they're like a 100%/200% mob which is insanely strong. The current monster design treats magical resist and physical resist as pretty equal, but physical resist is much more powerful. The simple fix would be to reduce their HP, at least 100%->90%; another option would be to make them magic vulnerable, so magic does 25% more damage to them (either of these changes makes Fireball enough better on these guys that they are no longer so strong across the board). A 3rd option would be reducing the physical resist 50%->40%, though I haven't done any math to figure the ramifications of that. (Similar arguments apply to the Tower of Goo, of course, though I haven't had a chance to go into depth for the bosses yet.)
  • Vampire - The life steal is a weak effect, and after they do that they've got nothing special left and are mere 100%/100%s. I'd suggest either increasing attack slightly (from 100%->110% to 100%->120%) or increasing the amount of life steal a bit (40%->50%), or possibly both if they are still weak. Worth noting is that as long as these mobs only appear in the Crypt it is more acceptable for them to just be weaker, so like the Imp it's not as important to tweak Vampires as other monsters.
  • Zombie - Definitely on the strong side, though not as drastically as the Goo Blobs. I'd reduce their HP slightly, possibly only 150%->145% but probably 150%->140% (compare to Dragonspawn).
  • TGG And The Crypt -- I'd suggest straight up making TGG altars not spawn in the crypt. Finding one early essentially gives you an auto-win for whatever class you're playing with; it's simply way too strong. --Twinge
  • What's the point of Dracul coming up for every class if only vampires can worship him? Seems like a waste of altar most of the times.
Anyone can worship Dracul. Vampires can worship him without penalty. Try joining him when you're not level 1; you lose 10hp but then get the benefits from there on.

Game Feedback

  • I like this game, but there are a few issues that hurt the game IMO.
Why not let us pick our deity? For some classes in certain dungeons, a specific deity is almost required to beat it. It doesn't make for much fun when you are constantly retiring and restarting to get the deity you require. At least, show the locations of all deities. It's also frustrating that useless deities are so common (eg. Earth Mother, Dracul with any other class other than Vamp).
Once you have all items, classes, races, etc, why are the most powerful items so rare? At that point the player is dedicated and just might want to have fun, but powerful items never come up, especially when you want a specific power item with a specific class. Regardless, even if the full game isn't unlocked the player has to work hard to get these items, let them have them. This is supposed to be fun, right?
  • I like this game a lot :)
  • This game is what I was looking for since years! In order to introduce roguelikes to my 6 years old son, I would be interested in translate it in french. You can e-mail me if it sounds interesting for you !
My today exploit : the Priest Massacre : I'm not quite sure that Benedict XVI will bless that ;)
Priest Massacre
--Lepoulpe303 15:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
  • I found the Rogue class to be a bit underbalanced. Most bosses have an attack high enough to kill him in one hit, so, in order to kill them, I must spamm sidestep or fireball and that destroys the feeling of playing as a rogue. --NickDX 20:07, 30 March 2010
Actually, Rogue is one of the most powerful classes at present and is overpowered rather than underpowered - surpassed only by Vampire and possibly Monk (which people have also thought too weak for some reason). Try perhaps getting your HP high enough to survive one strike (e.g. Dwarf) or getting your attack high enough to slay the boss in a single stroke. --Twinge
  • Is it possible to actually beat the factory with the wizard class? Not using BURNDAYRAZ with Mystera... The meat man is mostly unkillable. A 50 damage wizard would have to hit him 20 times! And we have the golem boss too...
    • It's easier than you think. Remember that you know where all the Glyphs are and can thus check what has spawned for you in any given game easily, so you can restart quickly if you don't get what you want. Even failing that, don't treat the Wizard as if magic is his only method of dealing damage. Wizard's melee damage is quite respectable after the 3 Attack Powerups, especially if you play a human. And if you find BURNDAYRAZ fast, then you're ready to use Animated Armors to level up very quickly. Don't use Mystera, in any case: having lots of mana only matters when you use a Mana Potion or gain a level; your regen per tile is unchanged, and losing out on your physical damage in a dungeon with the Iron Man is a very bad idea.--94.3.189.97 23:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
      • I can't seem to find the condition in which you could win this challenge... Even as a human wizard, using halpme and iphalseek I could only kill Tony Stark, at the cost of all my mana AND health potions, leaving ALL the maze explored and the Meat Man still unscathed...
        • At L7 (which is reachable from about 3-5 kills if you use Animated Armor carefully), you'll likely have around 40 Attack, 84 Health and 12-13 Mana. HALPMEH will heal 21 HP for 2 Mana at that point, whilst BURNDAYRAZ will deal 28 damage for 5 Mana. If you only use melee and healing, Iron Man will be dead after exploring about 30-40 tiles (which is about 8-10 squares of an unexplored corridor). You'd also need less tiles to do it at L8, but that would require a few more kills which you may or may not have access to. SMM is better left until you're L8 or 9, since you'll need something along the lines of 60 tiles to kill him. LEMMISI can be useful to get the necessary regen, and none of this is taking into account helpful items from shops (like Fine Sword or Tower Shield), use of Potions, or other Glyphs like BYSSEPS (very effective extra damage for minimal mana cost). In short, the strategy is simply to level up fast and start your run as early as possible, and knowing where the Glyphs are is very helpful in pulling that off. --94.3.189.97 04:10, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
          • So it's actually easy... ...if you have Halmpmeh, burnandrayz, lemmisi and 3 high leveled animated armors sitting right next to you. That's does not sound like a specific situation at all...
            • Again, knowing where the Glyphs are allows you to check them quickly. And HALPMEH and LEMMISI are merely helpful, not *required*. BURNDAYRAZ is guaranteed to be somewhere on the map, and finding high levelled Animated Armors isn't difficult. The only real gamebreaker of a glyph to be looking for is APHEELSIK, and that appears in at almost half the games you play by the time the Factory is unlocked. The point isn't that *every* Factory run is going to be easy for the Wizard -- it's that it's easy for the Wizard to search for favourable conditions.
            • Just to prove my point, I started another Factory game with a Human Wizard. I succeeded on that same game. I had a bit of luck in that BURNDAYRAZ spawned near me, as did a L8 Animated Armor. I did not find APHEELSIK during this game, but I did get HALPMEH. The only things I bought from the shops were a Spoon and Fine Sword, and I found an altar to Jehora after a bit of exploration as well. I also found LEMMISI, but I completed the game without using it. I ended up killing SMM at L7 and Iron Man at L8. I finished off both bosses whilst only exploring just over 75% of the map, never using LEMMISI, and never drinking a Health or Mana Potion. Sure, I got a relatively advantageous start, but I didn't get APHEELSIK (which meant SMM was a battle of attrition). Jehora helped, of course, but it was merely one of many things I could've found to lead me to success, especially given what I ended up *not* having to use. So yeah, you don't need a perfect game to beat the Factory with the Wizard.
              • I also just beat factory with Gnome Wizard. No APHEELSIK, but HALPMEH + BYSSEPS went the distance on both bosses after using Pactmaker + L8 Animated armor as my first kill. I was swinging for 72 a pop, and finished with 52 hp, 14 MP, a mana pot, and a Zombie Dog still active on me.78.101.75.189
  • Also, Vampire is absurdly overpowered. You don't even need luck, I just had a game where I had to waste all my health potions at level 1, but after I got the fireball, 100 health points converted to 28 damage each fireball could destroy both bosses in the library without the need for any item, god or skill.
  • I don't get "The Pactmaker", it takes 5 max HP and DMG, but only grants +1 max HP and DMG per level, this way, if you get it on lvl 2 (worshiping the pactmaker at level 1 is mostly impractical), you'll only have the real benefits at level 8.

Since most boss fights are at level 7-8, you'll get only +1 damage and +1 max hp. Sure, the exp boost is nice, but even if the exp boost were absurdly high, and you could get to level 10, you would only get +3 damage and +3 max hp. Compare it with taurog, in which killing half of the 39 monster on the map, would grant you +60% atk, or even +90% if you found all the glyphs. Heck, even Binlor Ironshield at level 2 would grant you +6 damage at level 8, and you don't lose any HP. The increase in experience gain is overrated. The pactmaker must be booster, a suggestion would be having the character gain +2 max hp and damage per level and +2 experience per monster. That would prove a very strong god.

    • The pactmaker is actually quite powerful in the right situations. You're overlooking that he also boosts max mana too. In addition, if you get enough health buffs or are using the right class, you can pretty much ignore Pactmaker's drawback at level 1 and pick it up then. This gives (at level 10, which pactmaker can actually make doable) a total gain of 4 max hp, 4 max damage and 9 max mana. The latter is what can make him very nice. I used pactmaker to finish two different dungeons. Unlike Taurog or Mystra which give bigger versions of their individual buffs, you can use both your magic and melee skills together. With the right class/race combo, this can be a very nasty god. 78.101.75.189
      • Update: Just used pactmaker to finish Factory with Gnome Wizard. Finished with 50 health, 14 mana, and a mana pot, plus a death protection effect. I was using BYSSEPS to swing for 72 a pop, healing with HALPME or potions, rinse repeat. I was level 10 thanks to grabbing Pactmaker before killng a single mob and using the Nuke & Explore trick on a level 8 Animated armor as my first kill, giving me a massive starting bonus. I still had about 1/5 of the dungeon unexplored as a backup reserve.78.101.75.189
  • I don't trust the tiki took too. I just played a rogue in the cript, and killed 35 out of 39 monsters without beeing hit, having a 55% dodge chance to face the bosses and some level 9 monsters. Having milked the most out of the god, it actually didn't help me very much. I know he doesn't have any restrictions and gives you a free health potion, but I got the feeling that he's a weak god.

Maybe increasing the dodge gain to 1.5% or even 2%, or maybe you could get free health potions for each 5 kills without taking damage.

    • I agree here. I haven't gotten Tiki to contribute to a boss kill, because you wind up having to rely on luck for the final boss kill and it usually doesn't work, since you often need it or 3 times in a row, whereas with a 50+ mana pool from the arcane god you can just spam fireball, even on magic resistant monsters.
    • I disagree entirely. I think Tiki is one of the best gods: unlike almost every other god, theres no downside to worshipping him. Free health pot = awesome bonus. In one Library run, I started off with a Rogue, and by the end of the game my dodge rate was nearly 60%. Taking out the bosses was a cinch (although I did use cydstepp to help with the Wizard boss, admittedly).
      • It IS completely based by luck, I had the same run as you, with a Rogue at the Crypt with 60% dodge and, even with cydsteep I could dodge the Wraith only once in five hits...
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