The new class in the freeware version v0.2... (spoiler?)

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The new class in the freeware version v0.2... (spoiler?)

Postby TigerKnee on Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:58 am

I think it is too weak but maybe that's just me. I guess it's not supposed to be "balanced" with the other classes but some inherent abilities ALONG with the ones you get when you transform would be nice. As it is now, hitting some monsters like Meatman or Zombies are basically duds.

Also, you're basically "mirror-matching" most of the time since you change immediately when you hit an enemy. Well, I say mirror-match but something like First Strike on Goblin does nothing when both parties has it, and you don't inherit the stats multiplier of your enemies so you usually come out on the losing end it seems.
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Re: The new class in the freeware version v0.2... (spoiler?)

Postby Aequitas on Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:10 am

Meatman is one of the few duds. Zombies are undead, so it'll make you immune to poison for one attack ;) Why not kill a lvl 1 goblin before your last hit on a bigger foe, that way you get first strike without the mana cost. There are *many* tricks that you can use ... just get creative ;)
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Re: The new class in the freeware version v0.2... (spoiler?)

Postby TigerKnee on Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:36 am

Well, okay, I see the point. The race is impossible to play in the challenge dungeons though. Too little dungeon variety there.

By the way, in Boss Hive (I don't know if it's the same in normal game), a level 1 Rogue dies immediately after uncovering a vampire for some reason. I don't know if a level 2 or above Rogue dies because I never manage to level 1 before dying because I uncovered a vampire.
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Re: The new class in the freeware version v0.2... (spoiler?)

Postby Darvin on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:50 am

The Boss Hive Vampire drains 90% of your maximum hit points. 90% of the Rogue's measly 5 HP is, after rounding, 5 HP. Instant death. Once you're level 2 you have ten hit points, and you're safe.

The changeling's greatest weakness is his inconsistency. Your abilities are constantly changing, and you have extremely limited capacity to actually control them. Similar to Paladins with undead, those low level monsters with good abilities are a resource that you can't throw away. However, unlike the paladin it's very hard to work those combos into an XP catapult. That means it's very rare you actually get to pull off a combo with the changeling, and most monsters you encounter will have to be brute-forced.

Of course, the ace up the changeling's sleeve is his conversion effect. You can repeatedly polymorph the boss until you get the one you want. Frank and Super Meat Man are out of the question for the changeling, but you should never have to fight these bosses as a changeling.


Out of curiousity, which four classes did everyone complete Boss Hive with? I did Vampire, Transmuter, Assassin, and Half-Dragon (I've since done Monk and Warlord as well).
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Re: The new class in the freeware version v0.2... (spoiler?)

Postby TigerKnee on Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:54 am

Vampire - Early levels are kind of hard because while in Normal/Ranked you can pretty much one-shot level 1s even at 1hp, it's a lot harder with the boss stats but once you get going you can basically slingshot easily to a win.

Transmuter - One of the stronger classes in the game because it gives the finger to luck. Did you get "locked" in by powerful monsters? Just blow up a wall for a measly 1 MP. If you get Binlor it's basically an automatic win although I managed to do without on my first try.

Assassin - I used a Goblin for this one. The most useful ability is the "automatically kill lower level" one since it means Meatman and Zombies (two of the most annoying enemies in this mode) just roll over automatically.

Berserker - Slingshot against Mage-type enemies (most of them don't get the huge improvements of enemy types, it seems), hope you get Cydstepp.

I also did Thief, Warlord, Sorcerer (all very strong classes) and Crusader.

Boss Hive wasn't as hard as I thought it would be when I read the description, but it's very luck-based. Some enemies like Snakes aren't improved much and still wussy. If you get a lot of high level animated armours, meat man or goats though you're in trouble. Cydstepp is almost a must-have glyph in this dungeon but otherwise I had a harder time in the higher levels of Gauntlet mode (like level 15+)

What do people think about the new Orc Glyph conversion? It seems to me that it only beats Human's at like level 1-3 and then rapidly loses out and is a bit too similar honestly.

Also, while I didn't like the old Goblin glyph conversion for "real" runs, without it, it is so annoying to get max gold before starting your runs in this version.
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Re: The new class in the freeware version v0.2... (spoiler?)

Postby dislekcia on Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:12 am

Darvin wrote:Of course, the ace up the changeling's sleeve is his conversion effect. You can repeatedly polymorph the boss until you get the one you want. Frank and Super Meat Man are out of the question for the changeling, but you should never have to fight these bosses as a changeling.


I've taken the SMM with the Changeling. In fact, that's what convinced me it was a balanced class. There's a trick to using monsters as a resource that I think a lot of players aren't seeing right now. Hint: Low level monsters aren't it.
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Re: The new class in the freeware version v0.2... (spoiler?)

Postby Darvin on Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:06 am

I've taken the SMM with the Changeling. In fact, that's what convinced me it was a balanced class

Oh, I'm sure you can defeat him with the right setup, but why would you want to? He's going to consume way more resources than any other boss.

Anyways, if you consider Transmuter and Vampire "balanced" on the stronger side of the class spectrum, then I'm sure the Changeling qualifies as "balanced" on the weaker side of the spectrum. I have gotten some good combos out of him, but he's neither reliable nor particularly hard-hitting compared with the game's stronger classes. I'd probably put him in the same category as the Crusader in that regard.


There's a trick to using monsters as a resource that I think a lot of players aren't seeing right now. Hint: Low level monsters aren't it.

Not really much of a hint, but I'll think on it.


Assassin - I used a Goblin for this one.

Same here; it's really easy to get stuck a few XP short of a levelup on Boss Hive so the goblin makes A LOT of sense. Relative to the rest of the level the boss is easy, so considerably less of your prep-work goes into his takedown compared with ranked mode. I got Gharbad on my assassin run, so I had to level up twice while fireballing him with my mana until I could first strike him down.


Also, while I didn't like the old Goblin glyph conversion for "real" runs, without it, it is so annoying to get max gold before starting your runs in this version.

Just copy your save file to a backup directory, then restore it whenever you "fail" a run to revert your gold amount. For most of us here, there's no longer anything to unlock after the Changeling anyways.
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Re: The new class in the freeware version v0.2... (spoiler?)

Postby TigerKnee on Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:20 am

Darvin wrote:Just copy your save file to a backup directory, then restore it whenever you "fail" a run to revert your gold amount. For most of us here, there's no longer anything to unlock after the Changeling anyways.


There's an easier way to do it, just close the program (like with the x on the top right) when you die before it autosaves.

That being said, I want the green light for the class to show up when I beat the Boss Hive with it, even though it's meaningless and unlocks nothing. I'm that sort of person.
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Re: The new class in the freeware version v0.2... (spoiler?)

Postby spoomak on Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:30 pm

I completed Boss Hive with these:

Fighter - My biggest problem with the other classes seemed to be experience gaining, so fighter was a really good choice.

Priest - 200% damage to undead helped bring down some higher level undead monsters for big XP boosts.

Assassin - It seemed like a good idea to be able to one-shot lower level monsters.

Berserker - It seemed like a good idea to get the berserker's damage bonuses.

Most of the time I had to attempt boss-killing on level 7 because I didn't have any hope of getting to level 8. I also attempted to complete Boss Hive with Monk and Half-dragon a few times but failed each time.

I find the Changeling pretty interesting because there are so many things to learn.
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Re: The new class in the freeware version v0.2... (spoiler?)

Postby metroid composite on Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:32 pm

So far completed the boss hive with all the classes (except Tinker and Crusader which I didn't have unlocked--I rushed to unlock boss hive). The vast majority I won first try; only exceptions I can think of are Changeling (which I didn't know how to play at first--so like three resets) Thief (which is just weird, because Thief is a fantastic class; I forget what happened here) and Rogue (20+ resets until no vampires spawned. Seriously, guys, instead of doing 90% lifedrain rounded up, why don't you do 99% lifedrain rounded down). Generally killing the boss around level 6-7.

Two issues I have with the Boss Hive, though: One: Serpents don't have boss stats. Why don't they have boss stats? Seriously, I start every game looking for the serpents to get the easy level-up slingshots. Two: you've created boss stats for Vampire, Naga, Animated Armor, and Imp. Why is the level 10 boss never one of these monsters?

Changeling seems solid on paper now that I realize how to use it; polymorph the boss into something with 318 or less HP, deal half its health in fireball damage, then attack a level 1 Gorgon, and do a first-strike 50% Death Gaze for the win. With a mid-battle level-up and four mana potions, you can almost always kill the boss starting at level 5 ending at level 6--that's 160 fireball damage, enough to drop a typical 318 HP boss below half health.

Other particularly good uses of Changeling include grabbing poison, then doing 2x fireball, 1x attack, run away and regen, then come back for the kill. When you have access to Animated Armor those are pretty handy too (as protection from killing blow doesn't go away when you change forms). Everything else changeling can copy is kind-of mediocre, but like the Thief's "Stabber" ability I won't say no to a small one-shot bonus.

A couple of things bug me about Changeling, though. Like...why doesn't Wraith give you a magic attack?

And yeah, I totally get the objection that Changeling isn't good in the two-boss challenge dungeons. Well, it should be fantastic in the Snake Pit (you have all the Death Gaze and poison you could want; go crush this dungeon). And it should do fine in the Factory (you have level 9 Animated Armors to fireball, and level 1 Animated Armors to give you free Protection from Killing Blow, and you can polymorph Super Meat Man). But like...Library; it's probably the worst class in the library.
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