Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

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Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Joist on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:46 am

Whenever someone starts a thread it usually stays on topic for about 1 page and then derails into strategy. We can use this thread instead of cluttering up other threads with our strategy musings.

If you want to talk about a strategy mentioned in another thread try to move the discussion over here and post a link back to the thread that started the discussion.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Joist on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:52 am

Moving the orc transmuter discussion over here. Linkback : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2044&start=180

I just had a staggeringly good start to Naga City end when my browser suddenly decided it wanted to be on youtube. Anyone know if you can run unity webplayer files in some sort of standalone player?

Anyway, take a look. I got 13 conversion levels and I was read to break some more walls when I descended and get another level from those Gloves of Midas which would have put me on 150 base damage. I went Binlor (might and knockback) -> TT (poison, dodge and 3! health potion trades) -> EM (used the rest of my piety on vine form and then plantation'd to get 100 more piety).

I was going to mess those bosses up ;_;

Image

edit: Also, I just realised that a Burn Salve potion will remove any Punishments from EM. That's basically a free desecration if you don't need her.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Joist on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:36 am

Hooray, I have screenshots of a Naga City Orc Transmuter run. 153 screenshots, 90 of them are above and the rest are below. The best part is the run was pretty bog-standard. No TT or pactmaker on top. Converted into GG then back to Binlor. I found the tri-sword but didn't buy it. No gloves of midas either. Pretty big letdown tbh.

Anyway, got through easily, had 3 blood swells, 1 health potion and whupaz left over.

I didn't calculate it right to take down a burn salve to get rid of corrosion from EM but I desecrated her anyway because I realised that desecrating her and then taking Blood Hunger from Dracul is a net gain of 5 damage resist. Also it gave me 3 indulgences.

My favourite "god dance" down below at the moment is, go in with 100, conv to TT -> poison -> desecrate EM -> eat the piety on the ground -> conv to Dracul -> Blood Hunger -> Blood Tithe when possible.

Finished doing 256 damage, 160 base.

Does anybody know if blood pools stack?
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Joist on Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:32 pm

Wow these things take forever to write. Here's the top bit of Naga City with the Orc Transmuter. The rest is just, you know, killing the bosses. If you've done Naga City before you know what that entails. It's the transmuter conversion buffing that's really the interesting bit.

http://www.qcfdesign.com/wiki/DesktopDu ... _Naga_City

I'll do the boss bit later.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Lujo on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:39 pm

There ought to be a thread about the strategy of talking about strategy in a way that avoids getting into everlasting arguments that boil down to "yeah, dev's ought to do something about it eventualy". Otherwise, good move, this.

Like a sticky of topic that result from allready identified problems which we can only hope dev's adress, or "known issues" or "philosophy bugs" and "noticed overbuffed stuff you might have learned to rely on".
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Darvin on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:57 pm

Whoah, 150 screenshots is a bit much. Probably should do video capture and put it on youtube if you want that much detail. People on slower connection speeds will have trouble loading a web-page with that many images. I have unreliable internet connection at home, and there's no way I'd be able to load that page on a bad day.

A few remarks on your playthrough:

Now, we only get 2 gods aside from Binlor. I need to decide now whether to use GG or wait and see what the other god is. In the end I wait because there isn't a lot we can do with GG anyway.

Given that you could instantly be in and out with humility and absolution, there was no reason not to do this immediately. You didn't even need to pick up your sparkles, since GG rewards you with piety for converting stuff.

I do agree that you found JJ late enough that he'd be risky. If you'd had an agnostic collar, however, you could have converted in, bought one level of boost mana, desecrated GG, and jumped ship back to Binlor without having to worry about expensive petitioning. Similarly, if you have both a fortitude and burn cure potion, you could just stick with JJ until you picked up the sparkles on the lower-level to convert out to Tikki Tooki, then desecrate Earthmother and chug your burn cure and fortitude.


EDIT: more or less just reproduced your run. Got GG and Pactmaker as my other two deities topside, got absolution at level 3, and decided against body pact (regretted that; I was able to 1-shot Tomithy with a quicksilver dodge) and descended to the bottom as a level 8 character. Bottom-side is pretty trivial with this much attack power once you get poison, and a quick consensus ensured I didn't fall into the negatives with Tikki Tooki.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Joist on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:39 pm

Lujo wrote:There ought to be a thread about the strategy of talking about strategy in a way that avoids getting into everlasting arguments that boil down to "yeah, dev's ought to do something about it eventualy". Otherwise, good move, this.

Like a sticky of topic that result from allready identified problems which we can only hope dev's adress, or "known issues" or "philosophy bugs" and "noticed overbuffed stuff you might have learned to rely on".


I could update the original post with a list of agreed upon OP stuff? The problem is no one knows what the devs consider OP or needing a nerf. They seem very tight lipped about it, it'd be hard to keep a list of things that should be nerfed which would match things that are eventually nerfed.


Darvin wrote:Whoah, 150 screenshots is a bit much. Probably should do video capture and put it on youtube if you want that much detail. People on slower connection speeds will have trouble loading a web-page with that many images. I have unreliable internet connection at home, and there's no way I'd be able to load that page on a bad day.

A few remarks on your playthrough:

Now, we only get 2 gods aside from Binlor. I need to decide now whether to use GG or wait and see what the other god is. In the end I wait because there isn't a lot we can do with GG anyway.

Given that you could instantly be in and out with humility and absolution, there was no reason not to do this immediately. You didn't even need to pick up your sparkles, since GG rewards you with piety for converting stuff.

I do agree that you found JJ late enough that he'd be risky. If you'd had an agnostic collar, however, you could have converted in, bought one level of boost mana, desecrated GG, and jumped ship back to Binlor without having to worry about expensive petitioning. Similarly, if you have both a fortitude and burn cure potion, you could just stick with JJ until you picked up the sparkles on the lower-level to convert out to Tikki Tooki, then desecrate Earthmother and chug your burn cure and fortitude.


EDIT: more or less just reproduced your run. Got GG and Pactmaker as my other two deities topside, got absolution at level 3, and decided against body pact (regretted that; I was able to 1-shot Tomithy with a quicksilver dodge) and descended to the bottom as a level 8 character. Bottom-side is pretty trivial with this much attack power once you get poison, and a quick consensus ensured I didn't fall into the negatives with Tikki Tooki.


Yeah, 150 is a lot, I converted them to JPG though and heavily compressed them, all the screenshots together are 10 mb which I think is manageable (I have a slow connection too). It's half the size of my Berserker VHoS playthrough that only has 40 PNGs. A screencast is off because I mostly play while doing other things around the house. Ironing and eating lunch and whatnot. Nobody would watch a 50 minute run just to pick up some tips :D

Good call on GG, I never noticed that you get piety from converting things. I'll remember those JJ tips too.

I really want to be able to prep pactmaker, then prep really big sword and dragon shield. That'd be fun.

In regards to Lujo's post, is this OP? It's certainly powerful but this is pretty much an ideal scenario for the Orc Transmuter, given you can completely explore the whole top and break everything then descend and still have plenty of dark tiles. One reason this works so well is the transmuter brings in an extra glyph, that's 200 extra conversion points, if the glyph you brought in was worth 0 you wouldn't be able to get quite as high damage.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Darvin on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:50 pm

Yeah, 150 is a lot, I converted them to JPG though and heavily compressed them, all the screenshots together are 10 mb which I think is manageable (I have a slow connection too)

My connection isn't slow, it's unreliable. On a good day I can handle 10 mb in a heartbeat. On a bad day I'd be looking at several minutes to load something of that magnitude. Nothing I can do about; I've tried every ISP in my area and they're all crap.

I really want to be able to prep pactmaker, then prep really big sword and dragon shield. That'd be fun.

Tomithy is your problem here. Reflex potion doesn't function if you're slowed (iirc; it's a little weird when it does and does not work...)

is this OP?

Yes.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Joist on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:36 pm

Darvin wrote:
I really want to be able to prep pactmaker, then prep really big sword and dragon shield. That'd be fun.

Tomithy is your problem here. Reflex potion doesn't function if you're slowed (iirc; it's a little weird when it does and does not work...)


I didn't mean for this build, just in general. I'd like to play with body pact more but that would require scumming (a mortal sin). You'd convert the RBS when you descend, no? Well, maybe keep it for Tower of Goo but convert it if you see timothy. Might from binlor is a more reliable way of dealing with the tower of goo though.

Darvin wrote:quote]
is this OP?

Yes.


Ok... I'd be wary of over nerfing though. This is really the only thing the transmuter is good for.
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Re: Strategy Thread for talking about Strategies

Postby Darvin on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:02 pm

Ok... I'd be wary of over nerfing though. This is really the only thing the transmuter is good for.

Well, there's also mana spam with elves.

Personally, I think Transmuter needs another overhaul. Although conversion stacking is an interesting concept, it's totally broken on the orc and the downsides just aren't worth it for other races (except elves, which can ignore it by using BURNDAYRAZ).
Last edited by Darvin on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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