Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

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Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby MeVII on Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:10 pm

-

Greetings:

I am a bit methodical, so I move slow. I will add new posts to this thread as I go along.
When I have played further I can begin to analyze game difficulty and balancing issues.

After some conversation with QCF administration I have made some changes to my post format to make it easier to "digest". All bugs or errors (at least things that seem like they could be such to me) will be first, and always be in bold.
Also, all new updates will appear in their own post, and not be included in the main post.

The last day this main post was updated was Aug 4th 2011.

MeVII


    Master List
    xx-xx-xx.x = Day-Total-Category Total

    Questions.
    1-1-1. Where does the save info go? Will CCleaner delete it? When the final version is out, will it import the saved data from the beta?
    Errors.
    1-2-1. The “human” and “guard” icons appeared over/on top of the words “huts” and “outpost” in the kingdom screen. Are they supposed to appear to the side? Or in their own frame somewhere?
    1-3-2. The smaller text for the spell information is garbled, letters are cut in half.
    1-4-3. The blood spot from a dead enemy is not removed when a new wall segment is placed over it, giving the image of a blood spot on top of the newly created wall.
    1-5-4. Dungeon edges are just black sections. It can be a little confusing/misleading regarding tiles that are still left to be reveled/explored. Is a “outer wall” supposed to be generated?
    1-6-5. I could not target the final goblin with the pisorf spell in the positioning puzzle dungeon.
    1-7-6. Don’t know if this is caused by the internet browser, but when switching to fullscreen the mouse location is not always accurate and so sometimes the character can not be moved to particular tiles.
    1-8-7. After finishing the “Thousand Cuts” dungeon 5x in a row, Expansion B was not awarded as completed. (If it matters, the Expansion B was finished before Expansion A)
    1-9-8. I cant reenter the dungeon to see, but I’m pretty sure the Halfling took a health potion, when I didn’t have any.
    2-41-9. Cast weawut on level boss, and the attack prediction said “safe”, moved the mouse off and back and it said “death”. Im not even sure this is an actual error.
    2-42-10. Are you supposed to be able to equip Taurogs equipment in magic slots?
    2-49-10.2 Should Taurog forcefully change magic slots into physical slots?
    2-45-11. Cycling mana potions does not grant piety for Taurog.
    2-46-12. Was able to request Unstoppable Fury though only having 3 items equipped.
    2-47-13. Foolish or not, being aware there will be a penalty, I want my conversion bonus for converting Taurogs (or any gods) gifts.
    2-48-14. Details of exactly what Taurog did as punishment could not be found.
    Ideas
    1-10-1.Will there be music in the final release?
    1-11-1.2 Consider having the game play music from a music directory, so players can add their own mp3s.
    1-12-2. Personal Opinion – I think the attack sword symbol should be another color other than green. The animation, the sound and the color combined strongly suggest a poison attribute that is not present.
    1-13-3. Option to slow down attack and counter attack speeds. It happens so fast its hard to enjoy the sounds and animations separately.
    1-14-3.2 Different vox effects on attack would be nifty. A deep “Urrg!” for a strong something, a high and light “Aha!” for a small something. Etc…
    1-15-4. Add different SFX for different power ups.
    1-16-5. Add an intelligence stat for characters, that affects how accurate the combat predictions are.
    1-17-6. Add a walking or stepping sound to movement. It could be random, and only have a chance of playing 10% of the time so it can still add ambiance, but not get annoying. Players could set their own frequency preference as well.
    1-18-7. Add sounds for …picking up glyphs and treasure.
    1-19-7.2 … converting glyphs.
    1-20-7.3 …retiring, using stairs, or any other dungeon transition (eg stairs).
    1-21-7.4 … kills and badges at end of dungeon screen. The sounds could be unique for each creature and badge type.
    1-22-8. Converting an item from the ground when all slots are full is a little awkward.
    1-23-9. An “auto pickup” option with a lil indicator/info window would be a nice option. Or an “always pickup this item” check box, or “always pick up this item type” etc…
    1-24-10. Is there some kind of shop for the town? Where you can bring back components to make special items?
    1-25-11. Are multiple copies of spells supposed to appear on the same level?
    1-26-12. Monster info boxes only appear on mouse over. Making it impossible to click or mouse over monster details. (granted, I already know what the goblin “first strike” does, buy other abilities may be more difficult to decipher.)
    1-27-13. Are “ladders” always down and “stairs” always up?
    1-28-14. Add item etc… for advanced instincts skill. It would reveal the level of the monster. Super advanced instincts (tracking?) would allow the level and exact type of a selected monster. (Is there a ranger class?)
    1-29-15. A very dangerous monster ability could be added that allows the creature to attack you if you are adjacent to it while attacking any other monster.
    1-30-16. Is there a “whirlwind” skill or item that allows the attacking of multiple creatures at once?
    1-31-17. Are there secrets to be found? Sections of wall that if clicked on while adjacent give way to new dungeon areas? This would expand to heroes that have a “secret sense” ability etc…
    1-32-18. Add ability to click on monsters listed in “kills” at end of dungeon to have access to creature stats and info.
    1-33-19. Do any badges add a %bonus to gold or etc???
    1-34-20. Spells turning red, or a “bad” sound when you do not have enough mana to cast them. Otherwise a quick click/click and you’ve physically attacked and gotten yourself killed instead of casting the spell you thought you had mana for. Granted, paying attention will fix that as well.
    1-35-21. Add a small x/x number to a dungeon to signify how many times its been entered, and how many times its been completed.
    1-36-22. Option to shut off sign auto read, especially for signs in the same level that have the same msg as you’ve already seen.
    1-37-23. Instead of the exit appearing, a boss could drop a key, which opens the door to the exit. This way both the boss and the exit must be found.
    1-38-24. Shouldn’t Endiswal be named Absrbwal? Since it could be understood that you are absorbing the wall to gain some physical protection via integrating stone into your person?
    1-39-25. Possible double click to attack (only for) creatures that you are not adjacent to. This will negate any accidental attacking when simply trying to move to a desired tile.
    1-40-26. No level 11? Makes me sad. ;) Lv 11 should be some kind of special bonus level, that bestows the Title of “Hero” and other such nifty things to satisfy overachievers everywhere.
    2-43-27. God perks buffs/perks would benefit from an “are you sure” or something. I instinctively clicked one thinking to open up its details box. Again, I admit paying attention would fix this as well.
    2-50-28. Wonafyt is a spell, but it summons a creature to fight. Shouldn’t Taurog be neutral about that particular spells usage? Not gaining piety, but not losing it either.

    Balance Issues
    2-44-1. The cumulative death protections proved too much for a level 9 human fighter, but it was a breeze as a level 1 human fighter. I think the HP raise per level for golems is what causes that.


    Days are listed below to correlate the above notes with Beta updates/changes.
    Day 1 = Aug 2-2011 / Approximate Game Exposure (A.G.E.) = Saved Halfling
    Day 2 = Aug 4-2011 / A.G.E. = Found Taurog
Last edited by MeVII on Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Updated - Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby MeVII on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:29 pm

- BUMP -
Reason: Updated Post (U.P.)
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby Deadman on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:12 pm

Wow, you are very thorough, kudos

Just wanna say in regards to Taurog, that it makes sense that you can equip his stuff in both magic and physical slots.
Also that he should NOT permanently change them to physical slots, as that would pressure you more into sticking with Taurog once you get him, instead of having the option to change (not that I've ever changed from Taurog, like, ever)

As far as penalties go, I agree that it should be made clear what penalties have been dealt, though for all I know their in the piety log and I just haven't looked yet >_>

And finally my view on question 1-1-1: I'm assuming there will be multiple times when our save files may become unplayable due to changes in the beta, has happened with pretty much every beta I've participated in, so don't get too attached.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby dislekcia on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:43 am

It always takes us a while to go through these sorts of posts - but you're flagged on the buglist, FYI ;)

Regarding saves: They're stored server-side and a local copy while the game's running. You can't delete them or edit them on your side AFAIK. Right now saves are pretty complex to ensure that they transition nicely between updates - before they used to gank out and you'd have to restart every time. Progress from the beta will probably not carry over to the full, that just seems like a bad idea in general.
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Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input - 08-05-11

Postby MeVII on Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:18 pm

-

Greetings:

I am a bit methodical, so I move slow. I will add new posts to this thread as I go along.
When I have played further I can begin to analyze game difficulty and balancing issues.

After some conversation with QCF administration I have made some changes to my post format to make it easier to "digest".
All bugs or errors (at least things that seem like they could be such to me) will be first, and always be in bold.
Also, all new updates will appear in their own post, and not be included in the main post.

MeVII


Notes from play time Aug 5th 2011

- General Notes -
I have been stuck on Havendale Bridge lately. There is a sharp difficulty spike hereabouts. As best as I can tell it is related to the non-liner play style that has been introduced. Before, you would unlock things by performing specific tasks, now, you can choose what order to unlock things via gold expenditure. I invested my gold in the wrong character classes, necessitating a period of gold collection to upgrade and try new races/classes.
Is it considerable to add an "Kingdom adviser" to assist players in understanding the value of certain upgrades at particular times? "Mighty Ruler! Scouts have returned with information regarding highly physically resistant creatures in areas near by. Perhaps consider your most powerful mages for those areas!"
Or whatever would be appropriate.

- Errors -

3-63-12.2 Taurogs equipment requirement for “Unstoppable Fury” is very unclear. I have been able to receive it having only 3 items equipped. However, I was not able to when having 4 items equipped. The missing item was the armor. It is a specific three? Is it supposed to be all 5? Or is it when all your physical slots are full? If it is filling the physical slots, this creates issues for the thief, who has mixed usage slots.
2-47-13. Foolish or not, being aware there will be a penalty, I want my conversion bonus for converting Taurogs (or any gods) gifts.
2-48-14. Details of exactly what Taurog did as punishment could not be found. Diety punishment details could be textually added to the piety information tab, in place of the generic "punishment".
3-60-15. Pisorf doesn’t seem to work consistently around the edges of a dungeon.
3-61-16. Me = Lev8, Rusalka =Lev4, combat prediction = victory, even though my health was below 50%. Is the death gaze not triggering because of my higher level 1st strike? Should “Death Gaze” always be “super” first strike? An effect applied even before damage is applied?
3-69-17. Requested equipment from a deity alter was placed under an adjacent creature. Perhaps a “Place item immediately into inventory?” option could be added. Either that, or in Taurogs case, items should always appear under a nearby enemy. ;)
3-70-18. Items can not be rearranged to different slots when all slots are full.


- Balance Issues -

3-68-2. There is a steep difficulty spike for the Havendale bridge. I believe its centered on the high quantity of physical resist Tokoloshes, “necessitating” a magic user, but thereby negating Taurogs help. That coupled with the bridge troll often times shrinking your available area by 50% reduces your ability to level your character. At 20gold a crack, you run out quickly.

    - Questions -

    3-59-2. Do dwarves get +1HP for every level AND for conversion points? Or, when they meet the conversion point total, they get +1HP for every level = the level they are currently at?
    3-64-3. Is Taurogs shield all incoming damage, or physical only?
    3-65-4. Is Pisorf physical or magical damage? I presume physical.
    3-66-5. What causes the Orcs to appear in a dungeon? They showed up in a dungeon I had been playing repeatedly apparently for no reason. Is it random?
    3-67-6. Why do the Tokoloshes with 50% physical resistance drop a charm of 5% magical resistance?

    - Ideas -

    3-51-29. Gods could … offer quests at their alters for bonus piety, or special gifts. For example gods could ask you to desecrate another gods alter, or request all of a particular type of monster be destroyed etc…
    3-52-30. …grant bonus piety if you’re a preferred class. The Guardian likes paladins, Taurog likes warlords etc…
    3-53-31. … have a % chance to refuse opposite classes, Taurog has a 50% chance of rejecting a wizard “Are you kidding me?” or the Guardian could refuse a Vampire. “You are what people need guarding from!” Some could even be 100% impossible.
    3-54-32… also have different reactions to different races. Taurog would go nuts over a orc berserker no?
    3-55-33. What if you could select a god to revere for your whole town? Even building town piety? So Taurog would grant all units bonuses, or items start a dungeon with, but you must complete quests (special dungeons?), and may not be able to select all classes.
    3-56-34. Could the temple be upgraded to the point you could take in some starting piety the same way the bank works?
    3-57-35. I still think each class should get a “master ability” or something for reaching lev 11.
    3-58-36. Are their any mimic or mirror creatures that shapeshift into a copy of your character or something when you first find them? Or they could change their creature type every time they take damage.
    3-62-37. It took me a second to realize mana potions were removing manaburn. That tiny lil “-“ escapes observation. Perhaps the description outright saying “adds Xmana, Removes manaburn”
    3-71-38. Has it been considered to change the interface from the text bars, to the buildings themselves being what the user interacts with, thus removing the bars, so that the Kingdom underneath can be seen clearly? It would be more visually appealing.
Last edited by MeVII on Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input - 08-05-11

Postby 232 on Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:05 am

MeVII wrote:-
3-63-12.2 Taurogs equipment requirement for “Unstoppable Fury” is very unclear. I have been able to receive it having only 3 items equipped. However, I was not able to when having 4 items equipped. The missing item was the armor. It is a specific three? Is it supposed to be all 5? Or is it when all your physical slots are full? If it is filling the physical slots, this creates issues for the thief, who has mixed usage slots.


Should be all 5 items, at least that bug's never happened to me. Just to be clear, you're not playing as a fighter right? Since fighters start off with a layer of death protection I think I saw someone on here who was wondering about a similar situation.

MeVII wrote:-
2-48-14. Details of exactly what Taurog did as punishment could not be found.


Attack bonus drops by 50%.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby MuF on Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:34 am

3-58-36. Are their any mimic or mirror creatures that shapeshift into a copy of your character or something when you first find them? Or they could change their creature type every time they take damage.


There is. One. But finding it seems to be pretty random, but that's part of the fun.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby salty-horse on Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:03 am

MeVII wrote:1-7-6. Don’t know if this is caused by the internet browser, but when switching to fullscreen the mouse location is not always accurate and so sometimes the character can not be moved to particular tiles.

I can confirm this.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby michal.lewtak on Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:50 pm

Could we have a description for the Badge of Honour that indicates it's made of chocolate? From the moment I read that it's consumable, I imagined it to be one of those chocolate coins wrapped in gold foil.
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Re: Desktop Dungeons (Beta) - Analysis & Input

Postby MeVII on Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:31 pm

Greetings:
MuF wrote:
3-58-36. Are their any mimic or mirror creatures that shapeshift into a copy of your character or something when you first find them? Or they could change their creature type every time they take damage.


There is. One. But finding it seems to be pretty random, but that's part of the fun.


Cool.

232 wrote:
MeVII wrote:-
3-63-12.2 Taurogs equipment requirement for “Unstoppable Fury” is very unclear. I have been able to receive it having only 3 items equipped. However, I was not able to when having 4 items equipped. The missing item was the armor. It is a specific three? Is it supposed to be all 5? Or is it when all your physical slots are full? If it is filling the physical slots, this creates issues for the thief, who has mixed usage slots.


Should be all 5 items, at least that bug's never happened to me. Just to be clear, you're not playing as a fighter right? Since fighters start off with a layer of death protection I think I saw someone on here who was wondering about a similar situation.

Yes, I was the fighter, but I was not referring to the existence of the death protection, but the ability to request it. I am quite sure of the error, because I remember using the piety that could have been spent on Taurogs Gloat to get another DP instead. I will see if I can replicate the error.

MuF wrote:
MeVII wrote:-
2-48-14. Details of exactly what Taurog did as punishment could not be found.


Attack bonus drops by 50%.


Ah. I did not phrase that appropriately. I didn't mean to say "I want to know what it is.", as I was able to figure it out with some inspection, but instead I should have phrased that "Diety punishment details could be textually added to the piety information tab, in place of the generic "punishment"."

Ill have time soon for another battery of play testing.

MeVII
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