Preparations. How to do it?

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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Kuranes on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:04 am

Sidestepper wrote:Here are a few other combos:
Transmutation + Sword (the blacksmith prep) lets you start out with 25 extra gold. This can be strong if you are also prepping Trisword, Alchemist Scroll, or Crystal Ball.


There is something I haven't thought of. Nice!
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Lujo on Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:24 am

Some additional thoughts even if it's just building up on what people have said allready:

STR potion, Reflex and Quicksilver - Preppin these 3 for heavy prep runs gives you awesome powerleveling capabilities. I've overused this so much I'd nerf it.

Burn Salve - was an autoprep for me because 1) it takes away the penalties for Martyr Wraps which is THE most damaging item in the game for resist stackers and 2) Makes any EM altar free piety + 3 indulgences.

Picking up STR, Reflex, Quicksilver, Burn Salve and Whoopaz is what I do most often as far as potion preps go, and if they end up combined with Alch Scroll and/or Tri-Sword then it's just silly.

I mostly don't prep Tri-Sword though, because of the:

Quest items prep - depending on your state of unlocks, this is almost cheating. The pool can look like this - Martyr Wraps, Tri-Sword, Soul Orb, Viper Ward and whatever is unbalanced ATM (I used this approach to guarantee Mage Plate and Platemail quite a lot).

Potion fueled items and the Quest item preps benefit from +1 gold per pile prep, as do any CP strats, especially ones involving tinkers. Extra gold is probably your best bet unless specificaly wanting patches, or if you really need the exploration from the extra subdungeon.

This hasn't been stated enough - EXTRA GLYPH IS RIDICULOUS. It really is. watch this:

1) You get more chances to find a glyph you want. If you want to keep a glyph (and yo ussualy want to keep one) it means 80 CP "unutilized" rather than 100, if you convert the rest.

2) For goblins specifically, better controll over when you ding, as you keep the same total ammount of glyph CP in the dungeon, but it doesn't take you over the threshold on it's own. For Wizards, this simply means you get more variety.

3) It means more piety! Noone ever mentions this, and this is where it breaks the balance the most - you get more certain piety with GG or Taurog (who are good preps as well), and you get more chances to find APHEELSICK which converts well for GG and HALPMEH / CYDSTEPP which converts better for Dracul.

4) It means one more glyph for Mysterea's mana regen boon, which I consider silly with manamonster characters.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby dislekcia on Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:57 pm

I love this thread :D

Also, makes me wonder about lowering total conversion pool on extra glyph a little.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Darvin on Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:59 pm

Also, makes me wonder about lowering total conversion pool on extra glyph a little.

I think the more important thing is the piety and refreshment rewards for conversion should scale down with extra glyphs. It's pretty balanced between less glyphs and fireball magnet right now, and it's these secondary effects that push it over the edge.

I've found it quite interesting that the forum seems split into distinct "more glyphs" and "less glyphs" camps, favouring either utility and versatility or the sheer power of extra CP. I also find classes that have starting glyphs of their own tend to break this a little, effectively taking a CP hit from more glyphs and getting a bigger boost from less glyphs due to their +1. I almost never run more glyphs on a T3 class, with Paladins and Warlords going for less glyphs and Assassins and Bloodmages going for fireball magnet.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Lujo on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:13 pm

@Darvin: Which is odd, because i consider more glyphs rather good with assasins and bloodmages - their glyphs are highly convertible, and mysterea gets all sorts of stupid if you can wrangle a big pile of glyphs. Mooching 2 glyphs off Binlor and scoring one in a subdungeon, along with your starting B2P and one more from the prep makes for silly refreshments.

But you are right, less glyphs is the CP prep, but more glyphs is piety shennanigans prep. I always go for more glyphs on Taurog Monk Nonsense Runs, chiefly because I get more Taurog piety that way.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Darvin on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:17 pm

@Darvin: Which is odd, because i consider more glyphs rather good with assasins and bloodmages

To be fair, those are classes that are less CP dependent and more likely to be using refreshment. If you don't bring refreshment or conversion piety into the mix, I don't think you end up ahead with Bloodmage and Assassin. Personally I go with the magnet for them, but if you're aiming for a refreshment party then I can definitely see the attraction.

As I said, if you're going to nerf more glyphs, focus on how it interacts with deities rather than slamming their CP.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Lujo on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:26 pm

Darvin wrote:As I said, if you're going to nerf more glyphs, focus on how it interacts with deities rather than slamming their CP.


@Dislekcia:
Yeah, piety allows for some crazy stuff (bigges and most powerfull way to tack on additional abilities on the standard 3 ability one cp bonus setup), and more glyphs lets you gain more piety. As a prep it has very little to do with CP, and unless you want to make it give less CP then potion races need for potions, right now the only CP related perk with the boon is that it gives goblins more control over when they ding! with conversions.

However, without that funcionality it would be a really lackluster prep, and it does take a player a bit of expirience to figure it out, and not just general expirience, as you can end up playing for ages and misunderstanding the potential of it. Not sure it needs a nerf at all, all it really boosts is Mysterea, Taurog and GG, and in a minor way possibly Drac. Mysterea and Taurog could maybe use looking into, though, concerning their interactions with glyph conversion in general.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:31 pm

Lujo wrote:3) It means more piety! Noone ever mentions this,


*cough*
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Darvin on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:45 pm

Not sure it needs a nerf at all, all it really boosts is Mysterea

Then perhaps we should only be looking at refreshment. I think the easiest fix is to have refreshment scale based on the CP of the glyph. No effect for freebees from other deities, 80% effect if you have more glyphs, and 150% effect if you have less glyphs.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:18 pm

I like Darvin's idea. The problem really isn't More Glyphs, it's Refreshment. When prepping Taurog or even Glowing Guardian as an orc, I still prefer Less Glyphs. Even GG has plenty of piety when you start right next to him, and I'd much rather have more base damage than a little extra piety that I probably just have left over by the end anyway.
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