Balance Tweaks Roundup

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Re: Balance Tweaks Roundup

Postby Lujo on Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:09 pm

Darvin wrote:This makes him a very common altar preparation even for me, even though I virtually never worship him if I find him randomly in-dungeon.


This could be chalked off to playstyle to a degree, because picking him up on the fly or not is sort of related to what you tend to walk into a dungeon with. I think this whole conundrum could be made right if his desecration penalty was different, so that when he's a complete waste in a dungeon you can at least waste him. I'm sort of annoyed that EM has such a non-existant desecration penalty while being a generaly all-purpose usefull god, while monomaniacal douches like Taurog or GG can't be touched most of the time.
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Re: Balance Tweaks Roundup

Postby Darvin on Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:19 pm

I'm sort of annoyed that EM has such a non-existant desecration penalty while being a generaly all-purpose usefull god, while monomaniacal douches like Taurog or GG can't be touched most of the time.

This is a good point; some of the easiest gods to desecrate are also the most universal; Binlor, Earthmother, and Dracul are almost always at least a reasonable option and frequently are easy desecration targets. At the same time, the deities most likely to present an impervious obstacle to worship - GG, Taurog, and JJ - have some of the craziest desecration penalties in the game. Tikki Tooki and Mystera also have nasty penalties, but at least they're broad deities who are rarely non-starters.

I'd be interested in seeing the devs stats on altar desecration. I wouldn't be surprised if Earthmother, Binlor, and Dracul make up about 90% of desecration events.
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Re: Balance Tweaks Roundup

Postby Lujo on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:42 pm

You could argue that the ease of desecration is part of their balancing - do I actually bother with so and so or do I desecrate him. I think i got more EM desecrations then times I've worshipped her, and I actually LIKE her, and have been using her forever, even before all the buffs. I actually prep a salve on just about any run just because of the chance I'll run into to the "free 25 piety and 3 indulgences" bonanza that her altar presents.

Wonder what would happen if Taurog slapped a crapload of weakening on you for his punishment? Big enough stack to discourage newbies from even thinking about it, but it would let pro's think of the altar as "spend gold on green potion, get a nice piety windfall, a few indulgences, ad actually us EM this time around". Would solve the original problem. :)
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Re: Balance Tweaks Roundup

Postby Darvin on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:22 pm

I think i got more EM desecrations then times I've worshipped her, and I actually LIKE her

I often end up doing both, promptly desecrating her after converting out.

Wonder what would happen if Taurog slapped a crapload of weakening on you for his punishment?

That might be an interesting idea, although I'm hesitant to make any deity as easy to anger as Earthmother.
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Re: Balance Tweaks Roundup

Postby Lujo on Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:06 pm

Darvin wrote:
Wonder what would happen if Taurog slapped a crapload of weakening on you for his punishment?


That might be an interesting idea, although I'm hesitant to make any deity as easy to anger as Earthmother.


Well if we're gona have a free desecration god, I'd rather it be Taurog than Earthmother, for the simple reason that I'd rather not have martyr wraps and "free" desecration penalty be solvable with the same potion the way it is now. Plus, EM is practicaly always fair game for mediocre to great effect, while Taurog has his useless moments.

And if we have 2 it would actually be better in the sense that you have a choice, and desecrating both means you run out of altars, so if you can't stick with whoever you convert into you're screwed. On the other hand, you'd also be 45 or so piety and 5 indulgences ahead for the cost of 2 potions which is not necessarily a good thing balance wise.
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Re: Balance Tweaks Roundup

Postby The Avatar on Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:02 am

Well, if Taurog changes to weakening, what will EM become? Fill the stage with craploads of bad plants (especially Mrkshades, Creepers, and Barb bushes)? Give enemies DR? Something else?
JakshdfFiha$#jaigb532i97fbnPKASN*@)sdjbau9a0)f+,Ahghs*hr)sk_sabdh^ujsbUA3{mvio/~dgffdsT^klndf,#ikon%(d

I speak chaos.
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Re: Balance Tweaks Roundup

Postby Lujo on Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:40 am

I'm sure the devs could think of something nasty, and I'm also thinking that if these weeks of no significant updates continue, we could have time to test out stuff like "two easily desecratable gods" if theyre the only thing thats new.

I also hope they're peying attention - theres not much else going in in terms of discussions, I'm a bit sorry we kind of derailed this thread, but seeing me and Darvin agree so much on stuff and be constructive (notice the lack of textwalling, there's barely any) ought to point to the importance of all this :) This and the Mysterea thing were kind of long time coming...
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Re: Balance Tweaks Roundup

Postby Nandrew on Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:32 am

Er, of course we're paying attention. :P But I think we've been over this before ...
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Re: Balance Tweaks Roundup

Postby Lujo on Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:57 pm

Yes, about a millio times, I just can't remember anyone suggesting this aproach to the Taurog bussines and if there was any explaination for why not. I'm not "in love with it" and wont cause a rumpus, but if I'm missing the why not, why not just tell us? :)
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Re: Balance Tweaks Roundup

Postby TigerKnee on Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:33 am

They're trying to push the game to release and would rather not have an upheaval of the balance at this point of time.

Save changes for any DLC/expansions that may be created.
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