Preparations. How to do it?

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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Lujo on Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:28 am

Agree with both, sorry about that "noone ever mentions this", shoulda been "this doesn't get mentioned enough" (base on the fact I've been doing silly stuff with it for ages and my "refreshment needs looking into" mentions didn't meet with much understanding). :oops:

And all that IF any of it needs a nerf at all - my thoughts on this come from a time I started noticing that glyphs were everywere after Binlor got a second "free" glyph and TT got his GETINDARE one. I've been running around with mageplate elves, even converting from GG post enlightment into Mysterea, and I'd got tired of Taurog Monks before Less Glyphs was even introduced. Still, might be the strat is just solid and not overpowered (even if I did have old Gaan'Telet runs with no worship of anything BUT mysterea, but still)
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby The Avatar on Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:19 pm

Totally. I think refreshment should be half of the CP% of your mana.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Kuranes on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:27 pm

I must say I'm rather happy with how this thread turned out. After 2-3 posts I were happy, but then the thread just kept on giving. :D
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Lujo on Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:03 pm

^^ Well it did get a bit derailed, but it dredged up a few things that were left in the air for a while, which is awsome.

The deal with refreshment is that it turns glyphs into strictly better mana potions - yo get 50% mana as opposed to 40% and you also get CP since you dont consume but convert. The fact that that it enables what is technicaly a piety spike while not costing any piety or requering you to worshim Mysterea while its going on is also rather unique.

But on the other hand, you cant take away the CP bonus because a) glyphs are the biggest source of CP and b) elven CP bonus is THE best way to get a big ass mana pool with which to combo refreshment.

And lowering the bonus from 50% to 40% would significantly downgrade it unless you take mystic balance for anyone but elves, because 50% of 12 mana 6 (1 Burndayraz per glyph) and 40% is 4 (which is not, and would take 16 mana I think).

So what to, in fact, do?
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Darvin on Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:12 pm

You'd only get the 40% value if you were using "more glyphs". If you were using the regular loadout you'd still get 50%, and if you were using the fewer glyphs loadout you'd get 75%. I think that's actually about right.

And lowering the bonus from 50% to 40% would significantly downgrade it unless you take mystic balance for anyone but elves, because 50% of 12 mana 6 (1 Burndayraz per glyph) and 40% is 4 (which is not, and would take 16 mana I think).

What kind of Mystera worshipper has 12 mana? More likely you're at a minimum of 15 (+3 booster, +2 magic), which would restore 6 MP if you got a 40% refreshment.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Lujo on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:43 pm

Darvin wrote:What kind of Mystera worshipper has 12 mana? More likely you're at a minimum of 15 (+3 booster, +2 magic), which would restore 6 MP if you got a 40% refreshment.


With refresment being the way it is, im worshiping her with just about anything :D No joke, really.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Darvin on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:23 pm

With refresment being the way it is, im worshiping her with just about anything :D No joke, really.

That would be fair enough... except Mystera actually offers a boon to increase your max mana. The first hit is basically free, and the second one is reasonably priced, so hitting 15 mana after your boosters is pretty easy for any Mystera worshipper.

I totally agree with you on refreshment being a jaw-dropper that will get almost any character build in the door, though. I'm actually considering how I'd rank the deities from best to worst, and I can't decide whether to put Mystera or Glowing Guardian in 3rd place (Tikki Tooki and Dracul being ahead of them), and it's just refreshment that's carrying Mystera here.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby The Avatar on Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:57 am

I'd put GG third. IMO he should get the rank for being more well-rounded (not that you can't use MA for any build).
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Lujo on Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:52 pm

Darvin wrote:
With refresment being the way it is, im worshiping her with just about anything :D No joke, really.

That would be fair enough... except Mystera actually offers a boon to increase your max mana. The first hit is basically free, and the second one is reasonably priced, so hitting 15 mana after your boosters is pretty easy for any Mystera worshipper.


Just a note on this - refreshment being useable while not in fact worshiping mysterea makes it so that I can grab it on guys who get only 14 mana (3 boosters + 1 5 piety hit) or 13 (just boosters). Unless were talking elves, every other way to get that 1 or 2 points needed for 15 would require a specific investment which I may or may not (and it's often the case I'm not) willing to invest (it's ussually an inventory slot). 25 more piety with Mysterea (or more) means I need to farm even more up to convert, and once I grab Refreshment on a non-dedicated worshiper I'm ussually looking to convert right out. Just saying.
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Re: Preparations. How to do it?

Postby Darvin on Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:53 pm

Just a note on this - refreshment being useable while not in fact worshiping mysterea makes it so that I can grab it on guys who get only 14 mana (3 boosters + 1 5 piety hit) or 13 (just boosters).

I can't imagine any circumstance where you wouldn't grab the +1 piety boost for a paltry 5 piety, and you'd have to be very anxious to convert out to skip a useful 25-piety boon that takes you to critical threshold.

Given that the player has some fine control over their max MP when using refreshment, I don't think this is an issue. Maybe you will have to stick around to gather 25 more piety; on a god like Mystera that's not the end of the world.
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