Now i know what vicious means

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Re: Now i know what vicious means

Postby Darvin on Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:56 pm

Congrats; too bad the Avatar's Symbol is so unimpressive. Try heading west to go for the Dragonshield next. That is a superb item.
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Re: Now i know what vicious means

Postby Dreamdancer on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:33 am

Till now i like it (see topic about the symbol)
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Re: Now i know what vicious means

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:43 am

Dreamdancer wrote:After three purist fails on cursed oasis, i tried DL again. This time with preps and i won :mrgreen:

Found Tikki Tooki early. Totally abused dodge against the bosses and with way to many gold to do anything sensible, i decided to give TT a huge amount. This resulted in 5 reflex/dodge potions and the Avatar went down really fast :twisted:


My eye went misty with pride :) Not only did you use my favourite god, but you used him in the fashion I personally adore. Congrats! You are a newbie no more (well, as far as that particualr set of shennanigans goes :) ).

Now when you figure out why exactly The Hack got dubbed The Hack, you'll like the guy even more.

Incidentaly, the "feed excess gold back into TT and buy a crapload of potions" routine was a bit obscure back in the day, and when I was excessively wordbombing about gold strats people assumed I was prepping elite items to buy with all the gold I seemed to be mongering. Then it turned out I didn't ever prep elites and plenty of folks were all "The hell does he do with all the gold?" :shock:

Then they figured it out and it turned out that nerfing the "Tribute" boon was a pretty good idea. It used to be 10 gold for 10 piety and every other boon gave you 5 gold. It was a bit silly ^^

I'm not sure if it's still doable, but that used to be one heck of a mechanism to get into TT, grab whatever you want and convert out (combined with cleaning up popcorn). Thanks to old Tribute, you could've worshipped him from lvl 1 with no sweat.

@Darvin about Namtar's Lair: Well, thank god for that, I was just using the Binlor Example to illustrate a point - if a gimmick of the sort the old Binlor used to be can get you through a Namtar's Lair, it can probably get you through anything.
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Re: Now i know what vicious means

Postby Darvin on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:16 pm

Incidentaly, the "feed excess gold back into TT and buy a crapload of potions" routine was a bit obscure back in the day

That was because the Quicksilver potion was weaker back then (10% rather than 50% dodge) and Reflex potion was incredibly-poorly worded. I kept trying to use reflex against first-striking enemies thanks to the "guaranteed first strike" clause it had going, and couldn't figure out what (if anything) it was supposed to do.

Once I understood these potions, I immediately realized I'd been dismissing a powerhouse.
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Re: Now i know what vicious means

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:25 pm

Well, I don't think it was just because of people not realizing how good the potions were, or how not good they were at any point. I certanly didn't know untill something (cant remember exactly what) made me have to look past The Hack and see what other features the game has if any. I was quite happy with the Tribute-XP-Dodge-Hack-Convert combo. So much so that I could just dismiss CYDSTEPP as a missclick-death-inducing-shmuck-bait strat, and not feel too bad about it.

Was pretty surprised when I figured out TT handed out something very much like cydstepp on top of what I was allready kicking-a***s with. ^^

So it was more that TT didn't look like a good choice compared to other god's and probably wasn't fiddled with by too many people, since GG and whoever was big ATM got more attention. Spotting the potions just sort of brought attentiont to how silly he was, which was funny to see at the time because not 2 weeks before a couple of such "breakthroughts" people were complaining about him being underpowered.

And then he was in all sorts of VICIOUS runs, and people weren't even abusing him to the max ^^

EDIT: Sorry for all this nostalgia, but I just remembered what exactly happened. I either discovered the potions as a cheap solution to Thomity and Bleaty in Naga City (never transmuted a throphy at that) OR as a cheap solution for a random dreaded old Bleaty as a second boss Tinker gold farming runs (pre PQI?).

At some point the devs put a righteous wrench in the "everything is doable with TT monks" routine by nerfing... everything involved, pretty much :D (some of it was purpusefully overbuffed previously, though). And the now present 2 -res floors in old Gaan'Telet were giving me trouble just before I discovered the potions. Then I did it a bunch of times with a TT Orc Paladin. With no other altars and about 10% of anything unlocked. And the old AA floor. And the old mana burn boss. And he gave no glyph, and GETINDARE only gave first strike. Dem potions, ahhh :)

Good thing they moved TT further south, that guy used to be more of a gamebreaker than Taurog -.-' I remember that I only unlocked GG by accident in the "2 gods whole game run". GG was even stronger back then, but I had no clue and was playing for ages -.-'
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Re: Now i know what vicious means

Postby Dreamdancer on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:01 pm

I think the quicksilver potions are a nice reliable way to get dodge. The dodge boon helps to get some dodges from GETINDARE but i used the glyph mostly for the first strike ability. My impression is that's relative hard to get dodges for non-rogues - with the same ressources one could cast CYDSTEPP or do other stuff.
But a rogue with the boon and the glyph totally kicks ass, wouldn't have thought that the additional dodge probility of 20% has such a big impact. And at a certain point i was happy about all the low-lvl AA with their DPs, not enough damage to really harm me, but a free reroll for dodge.
This game has some stuff which is at first somewhat counter-intiutive: popcorn monsters, get hurt for dodge, regen-fighting. But this makes the game so interesting.
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Re: Now i know what vicious means

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:07 pm

You do ofc know that if you get a dodge confirmation lit up, and then drink a reflex potion you effectively get 2 hits in for free? It used to be so unclear once that it took us all ages to figure it out :) They changed the wording at some point, though. I called it dodgestep as a referrence to the cydstepp glyph :)

And the rogue is the reason there isn't an actual dodge increesing item in the game so they wouldn't stack is too high. A TT rogue picks up the dodge boon and allready has 30%. And yeah, we did some math on it at some point, and the Rogue actually beats every other class solidly in the pro's-vs-con's department and is widely regarded as the best class in the game.

Or so I suppose, the Monk is the other gamebreaker, and the Assasin and the Bloodmage are somewhere around there too. Most stuff is pretty strong these days, and the Rogue's the only guy to be only lightly nerfed at any point.
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Re: Now i know what vicious means

Postby Dreamdancer on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:18 pm

Yeah, dodgestep i realised. First i did a mistake (didn't look right / wrong math) and thought that one would get only one hit from dodgestep.
I really like the Rogue flavour-wise and due to the fact that he is such a powerhouse mostly used him. But now i think it's time to look more careful into the other classes in order to not become an idiot savant.
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Re: Now i know what vicious means

Postby Lujo on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:38 pm

Well, you won't find that kind of power elsewhere, but once you unlock more stuff (not sure on your unlocks status), and get familliar with the gods a bit more, do check monk out. Don't rush it though, he seems to be confusing.

EDIT: And on the counterintuitive fornt this might as well be "counter intuitive - the game". Balkan wording intended. :)
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Re: Now i know what vicious means

Postby Gavster on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:04 am

I like getindare with other classes but buying dodge is a must. It procs so much quicker.
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