Warlord Silver(and expanded thoughts)

All things Desktop Dungeons

Warlord Silver(and expanded thoughts)

Postby xspeedballx on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:55 pm

So I was starting writing a thread about challenge design and realized I was really just whining about Warlord Silver. So I figured I would adjust and just whine about warlord silver and add a few thoughts.

I will condense the whine thought. Boils down to, this challenge I feel expects just a little too much(and I mean just a little). There is a lot of resource management which is cool. Balancing piety, plants, mana, unexplored, mana and hp is interesting, I had fun with that. I felt good when I figured out the trick(I didn't notice EM the first time).

What put it over the edge was
1) a bug, EM not spawning or at least not that I could find but more importantly
2) Managing free space around you. Constantly having to count how many spots are near you so you can get out, and then do the probability that if there are more than there are revenants they still won't close off a path, and even then balance that against piety in's and outs(which by and large is not a huge issue, piety is flowing), and then suffering ultimate loss or slow loss for failing to do all that. I feel silvers should be teaching me(passively not actively) something useful. Not how to do deal with a one off mechanic(stalking mobs of enemies). It was frustrating.

I completed it. I didn't feel good about completing it. I felt lucky. Now while having been in the beta for a while I am not an elite player by far, I am not even sure I am good but I do KNOW the intermediate techniques and some of the advanced ones.

I feel the process for learning a silver was about spot on. An AHA moment and a determination to implement. However for this specific ones(and maybe others I have more to do), I felt constraints harmed the fun. I am thinking either Rev's shouldn't move, or the dungeons needs SLIGHTLY more free space. Combinations of plants and already chopped up ground really was frustrating.

Whine is over, hopefully useful feedback was in there.
xspeedballx
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:04 pm

Re: Warlord Silver(and expanded thoughts)

Postby sitnaltax on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:18 pm

I just gave this another playthrough. It seems like the key is not wasting mana. Early on, if you need to explore and have full mana, kill a revenant and CYDSTEPP again. (Or fireball to clear a lower-level revenant.) If you happen to get trapped, you can afford to use a potion to escape--you don't need that many for the boss, especially since you can use Clearance to get more mana.

Another way to clear out the Revenants is to IMAWAL them, which is the cheapest non-Entanglement way (and gives that nice XP bonus) as long as one happens to teleport to a non-chokepoint.
sitnaltax
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:38 pm

Re: Warlord Silver(and expanded thoughts)

Postby Lujo on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:20 pm

Still have to get to that particular challenge, but the Hex Ruins which it is based on thought me the value of IMAWAL in that scenario as well.
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 2896
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Warlord Silver(and expanded thoughts)

Postby q 3 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:36 pm

I think I beat it with Tikki Tooki and WONAFYT; play like an Assassin and only kill things at a lower level than you.
q 3
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Warlord Silver(and expanded thoughts)

Postby xspeedballx on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:43 pm

Like I said I finished it, and you are right you have resources to spare and can afford to spend them. However, because of the issues listed above I found imawal to be more of a liability than help. One more mana and I don't potentially lose another path around the map. You mention non-choke points but those are not always clear, because remember there are plants spawning all over the place, which while managable as I pointed out makes it feel all a bit more overwhelming that I feel should be intended.

When I completed it I ended up using one pot(and 2 unexplored squares) on the boss and 3 others to get out of jams. I had enough resources left over for 2 more cydstep's. However I will say a lot went right on that run, high level targets were mostly not meatmen, found EM early, reached 20 mana early.

Again I might just be whining but I figured I would provide the thoughts.

Edit: Don't have TT unlocked yet but can that spawn in Warlord Silver? I guess I assumed that EM was the only choice since I saw nothing else ever. First strike would have certainly done a world of good.
xspeedballx
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:04 pm

Re: Warlord Silver(and expanded thoughts)

Postby Darvin on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:12 pm

I personally find Warlord Silver is pretty easy if you have a little patience and caution. It's a unique challenge to avoid getting trapped or losing out on resources, and I like that. The only real problem is that it gates the Trisword, an item that is arguably the strongest in the game and for those who have no vicious unlocks it's undoubtedly the best at your disposal.
User avatar
Darvin
 
Posts: 3188
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:44 am

Re: Warlord Silver(and expanded thoughts)

Postby xspeedballx on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:10 pm

I am not really disagreeing with you Darvin. The solution and path to it came easy. The resource management is a distinctly unique challenge. I feel distinctly unique challenges are better served as a gold, because in my mind a bronze is an introduction. Silver teaches you something. Gold proves you are good. I am not saying completing the silver taught me nothing, but it taught me how to accomplish a unique challenge that I will not be faced with similarly again. That isn't useful. But yay trisword!
xspeedballx
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:04 pm

Re: Warlord Silver(and expanded thoughts)

Postby sitnaltax on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:30 pm

I tried a couple of times; in addition to Earthmother, Pactmaker seems to always spawn--although I'm not sure what you're supposed to do with it.

Did you finish Priest Silver already? I recall it being the toughest of the Silver challenges, tried again today, and yeah: still difficult. Lots of difficult monsters close together, not many resources, hard to get leverage. Even when I figured out the "trick" it was hard!
sitnaltax
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:38 pm

Re: Warlord Silver(and expanded thoughts)

Postby Lujo on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:37 pm

sitnaltax wrote:Did you finish Priest Silver already? I recall it being the toughest of the Silver challenges, tried again today, and yeah: still difficult. Lots of difficult monsters close together, not many resources, hard to get leverage. Even when I figured out the "trick" it was hard!


That place has a trick now? I remember rofling it with a Triling easily AND I remember people dreading/complaining about it and me not having a clue as to what the fuss was about. (Well apart from it looking really though compared to a regulard dungeon, that is).

I still haven't done it in my playthrough and it's on my list, so could anyone elaborate on it?

Plus, I've just done Thief Gold through Getindare abuse. I do not have a clue how that place would be doable any other way, and if there is a way, then it's very dependent on luck with spawns. I also lockered the fabulous treasure but now I can't tell what it's for, anyone have any info? As far as I can tell it allows you to hit the in-dungeon gold cap if you prep it on a Tinker or with the blue seal, but you end up losing kingdom gold. Is that it?
User avatar
Lujo
 
Posts: 2896
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:47 am

Re: Warlord Silver(and expanded thoughts)

Postby sitnaltax on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:52 pm

Lujo wrote:
sitnaltax wrote:Did you finish Priest Silver already? I recall it being the toughest of the Silver challenges, tried again today, and yeah: still difficult. Lots of difficult monsters close together, not many resources, hard to get leverage. Even when I figured out the "trick" it was hard!


That place has a trick now? I remember rofling it with a Triling easily AND I remember people dreading/complaining about it and me not having a clue as to what the fuss was about. (Well apart from it looking really though compared to a regulard dungeon, that is).

I still haven't done it in my playthrough and it's on my list, so could anyone elaborate on it?


Well, as of right now, the only preps allowed are Apothecary and Witch--so you can't prep a Tri-sword. I suppose if you happen to find one early, you're in business, but the dungeon is very cramped and you can't explore much.

There's no "hard gimmick", but since leverage and resources are scarce, I had trouble getting to a level where I could be strong enough to face the boss. I think the trick is to use LEMMISI to exploit the otherwise unusable space on the sides of the dungeon.
sitnaltax
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:38 pm

Next

Return to Desktop Dungeons

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 5 guests

cron