Namtar's Lair and Naga City

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Re: Namtar's Lair and Naga City

Postby Blovski on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:18 pm

Darvin wrote:
I wouldn't on Naga City - the reduced gold means you can't get as much in the way of cool items or conversion fodder topside (economy isn't too important below but it is above so if you really want to get the best out of a triling you have to put off using GG down below)

Use the black market. It pays for the Trisword and then some. You lose out on Patches, but that's not the end of the world.
you can't get the parched warmonger

If that's important to you, then yes you definitely want to skip out on the Halfling. I don't see why it's important to get both of these at once, but if that's what you want to do then sure.
Also, if you have Dragonshield or Avatar's Symbol I think the triling's a lot weaker than a shielded Orc

Against magic-damage enemies that's debatable. Against physical damage ones, Trilling is stronger.


Black Market's pretty decent... is trisword still 3 gold a hit? It's definitely an easier start having potions to throw around, once you've hit the downstairs I'm not really sure it's such a big deal.

Yeah, just thought the strat could get both at once so I was giving it a shot to show it had a load of room for error. Hm, I'd have said the other way round - 33% phys res, 43 with Tower Shield, 48 or 58% with Blood Shield, magic res is the same with both characters.

Lujo, I've worked out you can convert straight into Dracul, grab Bloodshield THEN convert into GG with consensus... so...
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Re: Namtar's Lair and Naga City

Postby Lujo on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:30 pm

Blovski wrote:Lujo, I've worked out you can convert straight into Dracul, grab Bloodshield THEN convert into GG with consensus... so...


Yeah, well, usually Drac should be enough... What I was impressed by is that with proper foreknowlegde of what you're looking for, you can ussualy avoid trilings as a way to save money, and Naga City is a place where you can actually spend the money (guaranteed kegs and all that). The potions for piety deal was also most impressive - I totaly forgot about that, and what with playing gnomes all the time I degraded into a nasty habit of potion spiking everything.

And when I compare my previous playthroughs and this one - I never ever potion spiked anything, heck, I avoided the trisword on purpose for various reasons. You just reminded me what it's like to play without autoprepping crystall ball and gnome spellcasters, or abusing the too powerfull and simple B2P. ^^
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Re: Namtar's Lair and Naga City

Postby Blovski on Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:53 pm

Image

The resistance-boosting version nabs specialist as well. With Drac and a probably unhelpful though fun swap to GG for humility. I don't get why I didn't get Unstoppable as well? I'm fairly sure killed everything, does the advisor screw up the algorithm?
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Re: Namtar's Lair and Naga City

Postby Lujo on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:02 pm

Wow, awesome show!

Did you petrify anything?

And I also noticed that if youre rolling the GG dip for humility isn't as hot as it looks before you do it.

On a sidenote, I'm still waiting for someone who's not in a crystall ball rut to crack halfling Drac worshippers. I mean, I don't care what anyone sayes, Drac has been a tromendous piety farm for me, so I'm not really itching for boatloads of Drac piety... But what could it possibly be worth for?

Halfling anything with one keg prepped, one keg guaranteed below? The only benefit in Naga City would be the Blood Shield and a big bunch of bloodswells in excange for a bunch of potions and losing out on Trisword damage... Can anyone come up with anything better?
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Re: Namtar's Lair and Naga City

Postby Darvin on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:14 pm

@Darvin: About the Mana Booster prep - there really is no reason to prep elves anymore since you can load up a gnome wizard or just pick up mystic balance and have 3 fireballs per pool with that thing. It's hella strong.

Well, elves can hit 20 or 25 MP threhsold, which is pretty damn good, too.


Black Market's pretty decent... is trisword still 3 gold a hit? It's definitely an easier start having potions to throw around, once you've hit the downstairs I'm not really sure it's such a big deal.

Once your downstairs you rush over to Tikki Tooki and start taking his 2-for-1. You can end up with over +40 on the Trisword, which is massive.

Hm, I'd have said the other way round - 33% phys res, 43 with Tower Shield, 48 or 58% with Blood Shield, magic res is the same with both characters.

Dragonshield is 18%. It hasn't been 33% for a long time (and frankly back then it was hurting the Berserker since he just capped out, whereas other characters could actually catch up to him with that item).

and what with playing gnomes all the time I degraded into a nasty habit of potion spiking everything.

Trignome Warlords are awesome.

The resistance-boosting version nabs specialist as well

Specialist is pretty damn easy to get these days. Only the last boss you kill counts towards it, so only Kinisssch matters. Tanking him with melee only is pretty easy (though I don't begrudge anyone who wants to pop his DP with burning).

I don't get why I didn't get Unstoppable as well? I'm fairly sure killed everything, does the advisor screw up the algorithm?

Did you use the slayer wand on a level 8+ monster? That will disqualify you from unstoppable.

And I also noticed that if youre rolling the GG dip for humility isn't as hot as it looks before you do it.

That late in the run it's basically +5 base attack and +10 HP. For 15 piety that's a good deal, but not good enough to convert into GG's religion.
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Re: Namtar's Lair and Naga City

Postby Lujo on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:20 pm

Darvin wrote:
Black Market's pretty decent... is trisword still 3 gold a hit? It's definitely an easier start having potions to throw around, once you've hit the downstairs I'm not really sure it's such a big deal.

Once your downstairs you rush over to Tikki Tooki and start taking his 2-for-1. You can end up with over +40 on the Trisword, which is massive.


God that's evil :D Not to mention all the free dodgesteps...

But seriously guys - Halflings. Drac. Piety central. What to do? Wizards for the "keep your glyphs" loophole? Bloodmages for cretinous ammounts of sanguine? Sorcerors for whatever reason?

Lifesteal 3 Bloodmages for the B2P shennanigans?
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Re: Namtar's Lair and Naga City

Postby gjaustin on Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:38 pm

Darvin wrote:
Black Market's pretty decent... is trisword still 3 gold a hit? It's definitely an easier start having potions to throw around, once you've hit the downstairs I'm not really sure it's such a big deal.

Once your downstairs you rush over to Tikki Tooki and start taking his 2-for-1. You can end up with over +40 on the Trisword, which is massive.


I still fondly remember my round (before the change to the bosses dropping trophies), where I ended up with over +80 on my Trisword.

Another thing to remember is that there's a Keg of Health being sold in the arena. That's another +6 attack there, even without Tikki Tooki. I think there's a Keg of Mana too, but I never buy it so I'm not sure.
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Re: Namtar's Lair and Naga City

Postby Blovski on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:12 pm

Darvin wrote:
@Darvin: About the Mana Booster prep - there really is no reason to prep elves anymore since you can load up a gnome wizard or just pick up mystic balance and have 3 fireballs per pool with that thing. It's hella strong.

Well, elves can hit 20 or 25 MP threhsold, which is pretty damn good, too.
Black Market's pretty decent... is trisword still 3 gold a hit? It's definitely an easier start having potions to throw around, once you've hit the downstairs I'm not really sure it's such a big deal.

Once your downstairs you rush over to Tikki Tooki and start taking his 2-for-1. You can end up with over +40 on the Trisword, which is massive.
Hm, I'd have said the other way round - 33% phys res, 43 with Tower Shield, 48 or 58% with Blood Shield, magic res is the same with both characters.

Dragonshield is 18%. It hasn't been 33% for a long time (and frankly back then it was hurting the Berserker since he just capped out, whereas other characters could actually catch up to him with that item).
and what with playing gnomes all the time I degraded into a nasty habit of potion spiking everything.

Trignome Warlords are awesome.
The resistance-boosting version nabs specialist as well

Specialist is pretty damn easy to get these days. Only the last boss you kill counts towards it, so only Kinisssch matters. Tanking him with melee only is pretty easy (though I don't begrudge anyone who wants to pop his DP with burning).
I don't get why I didn't get Unstoppable as well? I'm fairly sure killed everything, does the advisor screw up the algorithm?

Did you use the slayer wand on a level 8+ monster? That will disqualify you from unstoppable.
And I also noticed that if youre rolling the GG dip for humility isn't as hot as it looks before you do it.

That late in the run it's basically +5 base attack and +10 HP. For 15 piety that's a good deal, but not good enough to convert into GG's religion.


Didn't know specialist was last boss only now - disappointing - I used physical only against all of them in that run.
I didn't petrify or use slayer wand, so I'm not really sure what happened, perhaps I missed something on the top edge or the RNG stuck something behind a wall or something...
For the resistances I was factoring in Taurog's stuff. Again, 48% physical resistance with a Taurog->Drac->GG Orc as opposed to a Taurog->TT Triling's 15%. Taurog->Drac->TT could get you 30% PR if you wanted.

The TT triling can get fairly daft, I agree, but it's a very different strategy. I'm not certain if it's as good for Warmonger as having GG (I mean, you can probably nail his Gooiness with all those potions - I managed with a level up, some regen fighting, a protection and 58% resistances but he's still pretty rough if you're just wailing on him) and I find managing TT's piety loss slightly more easy to mess up than GG and Drac in Naga City - he's probably a doddle if you're used to him but I tend to forget at stupid moments.

The GG dip for humility is to take advantage of the berserker's +20% attack boost for attacking a higher level enemy (you can fight sixish instead of 3 bosses with that bonus), and a slightly quicker overheal and might from the pact as well. The slight stat boosts are nice but not essential; it wouldn't be worth it for a non-berserker. Converting into GG is largely for a couple of cleansings to flatten Goo since you have the piety spare anyway and clearing poison if you have to. Since blood swell curses you, if you want to use the high resistances then protection and regen fighting can be situationally better than sticking with Dracul.

@GJaustin: there is a mana keg as well I'm pretty sure.
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Re: Namtar's Lair and Naga City

Postby Darvin on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:38 pm

I'm not certain if it's as good for Warmonger as having GG

If you're willing to throw gold at TT to do it, you can convert into GG for Goo then consensus in Dracul for your finisher. It all depends on whether you have enough gold to pull it all off.
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Re: Namtar's Lair and Naga City

Postby Lujo on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:07 pm

Darvin wrote:
I'm not certain if it's as good for Warmonger as having GG

If you're willing to throw gold at TT to do it, you can convert into GG for Goo then consensus in Dracul for your finisher. It all depends on whether you have enough gold to pull it all off.


What's the item/seal prep exactly? Because if you have room for the Treausure + Conversion seal, and kingdom gold to burn, you can start off with a hefty 100. Add black market to that, and you can get silly. Invenotry space might be an issue though, but you seem to have done it with a translocation so it's a moot point...
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