Naga Cauldron Crackdown

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Naga Cauldron Crackdown

Postby Lujo on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:59 pm

Ok, before anything else , I'd love to see it in shops as does everyone else. I also suggested a rework at some point, based on potential difficulties with gathering enough debuffs for it to make a significant impact.

But I've been experimenting with it a bit and found out it was heavily bugged in it's presentation - the % boost it displays in the inventory is not always right, and mousing over a potion doesn't even display the modified value (allthough it does add it once you drink a potion).

All this has made it really difficult to even begin contemplating its uses. For example - I'm not even sure which debuffs it counts, so I'm not sure how much of a bonus can be acquired/shot for. And even then, I'm not sure how increasing the effectiveness of HP and MP potions really affects established tactics in tangible ways.

Here's what I've found out, and it would really help with testing this thing if the dev's came out with the exact list of debuffs it counts.

What I know:

It doesn't seem to affect thieves.

It counts weakening, corrosion, poison, mana burn, curse and slow. It may also count vampire's exaustion.

Mana Burn and Poison "fall off" through potion use, but either can be leveraged in a boss fight if you focus on one type of potions only, and either can be reaplied with various degrees of effort. In an either/or scenario, were talking a possibly/guaranteed 25% here.

Weakening is hard to inflict upon yourself, but hard to shake off, corrosion is a statistically a bit easier to gain because of EM. Theoreticaly, you could ensure weakening by a TT desecration, but it's a bit suicidal and situational. Both can be easily "prepped" by prepping JJ's altar and simply not taking Chaos Avatar. If you're prepping cauldron, you wan't to get bang for your buck, so in the ideal case (JJ prep) were talking another 10% here.

Curse is easy to come by, and if you pay attention not to shake it is pretty stable. 5%

Slow can be acquired through either platemail purchase, or prepping a RBS, for another 5%. Prepping a RBS means little to a spellcaster and costs an item slot, which coupled with the item slot lost through prepping JJ, and an item slot lost to the cauldron itself makes the strat ludicrously inefficent compared to almost anything else, but since slow is so hard to come by, and I can't think of any other debuffs, it's pretty much necessary.



So, the total seems to be a 30% increese. It's highly unprobable that poison and mana burn can both be maintained (there have been exceptions), so 25% is a more likely total. This would bring the totals to 65%. The priest has 100% on Health potions and is still my least played and least appealing class (he can be strong, but meh), while the Bloodmage has 80% + sanguine boost on his MP and that is his least talked about feature.

Now, there seems to be 2 cases where a % increase on the potions might be worth it - very high health and mana pools, such as those of dvarwes and elves, and specific MP thresholds such as Warlords CYDSTEPP and ??? (and what this would be I can't figure out).


The big health pool guys may have better tools at their disposal in form of all the % based regen boons - bloodswells, and protections, and refreshments. Furthermore, their acess to potions is limited to 5 each, so a big Cauldron setup to get the most out of it would only yield limited benefits. The halflings and the gnomes could reap much, much bigger rewards if there were any to reap, because of having more potions at their disposal. So far only one thing has come to my attention:


The Gnome Warlord can get one Cydstepp per mana potion in a way that is almost wholly preppable, and includes the RBS (which is good on Warlords), and doesn't tie up his gold.

Method is - Prep Cauldron, JJ, Extra Mana and RBS. Get a level of weakening and corrosion from JJ, then pick petition up. INstead of Chaos Avatar, pick up one level of Boost mana and collect both of your extra mana boosters. Get cursed or poisoned. Slow + Weak + Corr + Curse/Poison = 20%, 60% per potion, and 60% of 18 mana should be 10 (55% isn't). Alternatively, you don't have to prep extra mana boosters, but you have to take 2 helpings of mana boost from JJ. Or you can take both and only need 2 debuffs on yourself to make it work.

Anyway, 4 preps, a bit of exploration and 2 easily taken boons from a prepped deity, convert all your other stuff into mana potions and CYDSTEPP away. It was allready possible by a more convoluted way, and didn't really need any more help.




What I hope to learn is -

1) Are there any other "debuffs" of any kind that the Cauldron takes into account?
2) Is there any other interesting threshold that prepping the cauldron with up to 25% boost might help with?
3) Is there any way at all to make it work with Health based strats?
4) Does it actually boost anything that isn't allready powerfull (Warlords, B2P)
Last edited by Lujo on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Naga Cauldron Crackdown

Postby Darvin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:22 am

Well, you could add a quest item prep and hope for Martyr Wraps on top of things. That's an extra 9 corrosion at level 10.

The problem with JJ without petition is that he can mana burn and health-drain you at random times. It pretty much wipes out all your gains if JJ hits you with one of these when you're near full. Desecrating Earthmother seems a way more reliable way of building up debuffs.
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Re: Naga Cauldron Crackdown

Postby Lujo on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:00 am

I don't think it counts the ammount of individual debuffs, but rather the types of different ones you have. But yeah, if you find Martyr Wraps, you're guaraneteed corrosion.

So you do pick up petition, just make sure you get hit by corrosion and weakening once before you do (pretty much guaranteed).
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Re: Naga Cauldron Crackdown

Postby The Avatar on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:57 am

It give 5% per unique debuff, making your potions total 65%. That could be quite strong actually.
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Re: Naga Cauldron Crackdown

Postby Lujo on Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:47 am

The Avatar wrote:It give 5% per unique debuff, making your potions total 65%. That could be quite strong actually.


My entire post boils down to this.

And well, that the setup required to do it reliably enough to justify prepping the Cauldron only benefits the Warlord. And as Darvin said, the entire thing still might be inferior to just prepping the trisword.

Anyone have any specific ideas for 65% potions? Or know any debuffs it works with (technicaly you can get 30%, but can't keep it on easily unless you repply poison or mana burn for every potion).
Last edited by Lujo on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Naga Cauldron Crackdown

Postby Lujo on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:22 pm

The Gnome Warlord with RBS, JJ, and cauldron can clear Cursed Oasis fine. It's not unexpected, though.

I'll give the Mysterea variant a spin in Naga City, ought to be really swell. Extra Mana Boosters, +1 Mana from Mysterea, and a 10% cauldron ought to give me a cydstep-per-potion at 16 mana with Mystic Balance. Should be easy if I score a Tri-Sword, but I won't scum for it as I feel it's a bit cheap...

In other Cauldron news, I've figured out the obvious, and well, the cauldron does give quite a bit of a boost at 10%, because it means 1 mana potion = 1 fireball. It's only really worht it for Gnomes, and non-wizard ones at that, but at least your gods aren't tied up. I got a feeling it's actually better than the mage fist in this specific case, but I can't see it being better than Crystall Ball...

EDIT: The Mysterea variant Cauldron Warlord can totaly do Naga City, with a RBS and getting either weakened or corroded. Not Tri-Sword either. Well, if I didn't missclick and die 100% of the time down below... And that probably means he can do Demonic Library as well, and, well, anything you can potion spike to death, except you can also count on Refreshment in most places if you play your cards right...
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