Super Vicious

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Re: Super Vicious

Postby The Avatar on Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:05 pm

And he'll struggle when everything does 150 hp...

Since you basically dumped your whole character into mana, did you use WEYTWUT then fireball for form 2?
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Re: Super Vicious

Postby q 3 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:26 pm

Well, (almost) everyone struggles when everything hits for 150, but when he's effectively regenerating something like 40+ HP per tile and can overheal himself to 200+ (more with more max HP boosters) I'd say he could manage as well as anyone.

Form 2 doesn't have Retaliate Fireball. It's probably the easiest form (for a pure caster, at least).
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Re: Super Vicious

Postby The Avatar on Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:30 pm

My bad, I wasn't counting the wizard forms. I suppose that makes it form 4.
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Re: Super Vicious

Postby paplaukes on Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:39 pm

So, about Bloodmages - my priority to play them dropped close to the bottom of the list. Just playing them as half-vampires. Tried a hoarder PQI - still didn't use BLUDTOPOWA. If it wasn't for the badge I would've converted it on start. Might still try using the glyph with other classes - at least they afford 2 fireballs before they need to destroy extra blackspace. It's just not fun at all. Maybe it can't be abused at low levels now, but as far as I'm concerned it's easier to just find a different glyph to mess with.
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Re: Super Vicious

Postby Darvin on Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:10 pm

B2P is definitely a lot trickier to work with now. It will still facilitate a pure spellcaster spike, but it's significantly less powerful (25% less powerful, in fact) than its previous incarnation. Definitely a far more specialized tool now, which has always been B2P's problem; any numbers that are good for general-purpose classes are obscene for pure spellcasters, and any numbers that are good for pure spellcasters are garbage for everyone else.

Bloodmages desperately need to raise their max mana now. That means playing elf, prepping a +mana item, getting extra mana boosters, whatever it at your disposal. I think they still work, but taking two big nerfs simultaneously is definitely going to take a lot of adjustment. They've probably been knocked out of top-tier.
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Re: Super Vicious

Postby paplaukes on Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:37 pm

You summed it up well. I wouldn't even call a 7 starting mana guy a spellcaster anymore :)
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Re: Super Vicious

Postby Sidestepper on Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:45 pm

The other three tier 3 classes have some sort of advantage when using their glyph. Maybe that's what the Bloodmage needs? Maybe a lower health cost or something?
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Re: Super Vicious

Postby Lujo on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:38 pm

11 more vicious PQI's to go. I got this so far:

Northern Desert - Gnome Bloodmage (Blue Bead, Mystic Balance) Try: 1st

Berserker Camp - Goblin Wizard (CB, Mysterea, B2P), Boss: Medusa Try: 2nd

Hobblers Hold - Goblin Thief (CB, Weakening, Mystic Balance) Try: 1st

Labyrinth - Goblin Wizard (CB, Refreshment) Boss: Firstborn, Try: 1st

Eastern Tundra - PQI Elven Crusader, Binlor (Pissorff, Knockback), TT (Potions), Trisword + PISSORF, went cheeky and specialist on top and somehow missed unstoppable, even though I killed everything. Try: 2nd (i forgot to bring trisword first time on a missclick)

Den of Danger - Gnome Rogue (Trisword, PISORF, TT), Boss: Jormungandr, Try: 1st

Grimm's Grotto - PQI Halfling Warlord (Cydstepp, Trisword, Binlor (stoneskin, knockback). Boss: Frank, try: 1st

Magma Mines - PQI (?) Goblin Sorcerer (CB, Mystic Balance, Witchalok Pendant, quicksilver dodge on the phys immune guy)

Halls of Steel - PQI Gnome Berserker (Binlor for knockback and 3 Stone Heart, Mysterea for Mystic Balance, was tricky). Boss: Wraith. Try 1st.

Western Jungle - PQI Halfling Assasin (hoped to Binlor + PISSORFF, ended up throwing everything and using a million clearances). 2nd try.



Did them off Flaming runs mostly, with a few PQI. Get them out of the PQI, and out of the completion, please.

Bloodmag is fine, except now there's some justification for his insane sanguine, and some need for him to interact with content. Anyone doubtiong, pick up a blue bead and mystic balance and you still have the same old monster except with more of a "special" kind of gameplay and less synergy with dings.

B2P is simply not braindead anymore, and not "auto pickup and drop whatever you've been doing and go pure caster with anything" glyph.

Some dungeons obviously need to be made a small tad harder in normal mode - Northern Desert, Eastern Tundra and Berserker Camp, and possibly Southern Swamp. I guess the dev's wanted to see if they've brought the overall diffuculty too low , and in some places they have.

Mysterea is probably too good and self sufficent ATM, but I guess that's also being focused right now. So is the wizard.




For all practical purposes I'm still on break/strike. I hope when they move the damned vicious out of the PQI I don't lose my completions, doing all this again is not gonna be fun.
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Re: Super Vicious

Postby Naoya on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:42 pm

Would someone mind showing me a screen or two? Right now, I can't finish dungeons which means I can't do the quest. I'd really like too see what the bosses/normal Monsters look like statwise.

Hum, bloodmage nerf. Most likely well deserved, though 7 mana is really short.
I agree with Sidestepper - it looks a bit odd that the Bloodmage doesn't get any advantage when it comes to B2P, and its his signature Glyph after all. There should be a reason for it other than "duh, he unlocks it".
A lower tilecost would be interesting - B2P becomes kinda useless once you ran out of Blackspace, and now Bloodmage is somewhat dependant on it until he raised his mana up to some point.

On a completety unrelated note, I had both Magefist and Avatars Symbol in my locker. Now I have the new thing and dwarfen gauntlets in it. YaY for free item.
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Re: Super Vicious

Postby Blovski on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:03 am

The bloodmage does get an advantage with Bloodtopowa, same as he's had for a while - the bloodpools let him regen health for further mad-fun B2P spiking without exposing any more tiles and giving the monsters an opportunity to regen. As it stands, the fact that a dedicated caster does not want to prep and use Dracul stops them doing the same. If anything, the change to B2P in general makes this comparatively stronger. Similarly, his mana regen on a bloodstain and mana potion bonus gives him a big advantage in mana spiking at the end of the game, which is what B2P is really useful for.

A little trick with a bloodtopowa strategy is to prep blackspace - get a Smuggler's den and prep a Transmutation seal to score the secret subdungeon blackspace as well.

I really like the change - I think it might also promote a bit more JJ-playing (get +9ish mana and those potions are still great), for those of us who want to gnome it up instead, which is really neat. I think Lujo's probably right in that Blue Bead is another great workaround, replacing the low max mana with massive mana-regen capability. Elven boots take you up to regular starting MP levels as well, if you just want to compensate.

I think you'd just need to play with slightly different preps to the usual crystal-balling deathmonster which was the current metagame bloodmage.

Out of interest, what would people say the current 5 frontrunners are for sub supervicious stuff?

I mean, Rogue, obviously, but after him? (I'd go Bloodmage, Wizard?, Assassin, Tinker?, Vampire?)
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