Rambling

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Rambling

Postby booooooze on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:00 am

Ah, DD. Nothing ever changes.

Haven't really played in a few months. Thought I'd stop in.

I'm positive the devs all have Lujo on ignore, as I do, but it seems to me that his goal is to reduce the complexity of the game to where there is one class, one race, one god (with no boons), and the only item is the spoon (potions and glyphs have all been removed, too). ... and he'll still be bitching about how easy the game is, only now, no one but him will buy it, because it's not any fun anymore.

While the rest of the vets do in fact provide largely constructive feedback (well, except that they all want it to be harder and yet for their mis-clicks to not be punished, a contradiction I'll never understand), the fact of the matter is that they are already good at the game. If DD is like a Rubik's Cube, they've either read the solution or figured it out themselves, and can now do it in their sleep. They want a new challenge, something to keep the game new and interesting. Never mind that said Cube is already too hard for a lot of people to figure out... or is it just not any fun?

I gladly bought the game over a year and a half ago, and it's been fun to watch the game evolve. I'm not great at it; but my goal was never to be the best at DD. I just wanted to have fun. And it was. Until last week I had 100% completion on VHoS. That felt great. It took me three weeks to get my first three wins on the old VHoS, before the AAs got their nerf. Talk about a challenge...

Maybe I'm just bitter my poison toy got taken away (I'll admit that it was probably too strong. But it sure was fun!). Maybe I'll find something new that's fun. But it seems like every time I do find something fun, it gets nerfed out of existence. Sure, some things are overpowered: Dracul briefly gave piety for every time you used lifesteal! That was awesome! And I can see why that was clearly a mistake. But some of the changes, especially the more recent ones, seem biased towards giving the vets new challenges at the expense of any chance of fun for the new players.

So, I don't know. I don't really have a point. I know I'm echoing the guy below who's frustrated. But if I log in one day and the Assassin doesn't have Swift Hands, well, I can rest assured that Lujo has won: the game is likely not fun at all anymore, and I don't need to bother playing.

God, that all sounds so negative. I don't want to be negative. It's a great game. I guess I'm saying: don't nerf everything until the game is no fun, just because six people on your message board are good at the game.

~B
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Re: Rambling

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:44 am

Nooooooo, a rational voice from the real world!

Shun the unbeleiver, shuuuuuuuuuuuuuun!
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Re: Rambling

Postby FDru on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:58 am

Well, there is something wrong when bosses can be killed at level 1. Things being "too easy" with cheesy strategies is one thing, but there is a fine line between easy and trivial. When certain strategies trivialize content, and nearly anyone can pull it off, it needs to be looked at. And this is just coming from a game design perspective. Trivial content = players getting bored quickly, game lacks longevity = bad game.

Ideally players should be able to "beat the game" with a little bit of effort, but there should be a struggle when it comes to doing everything to keep more challenge-minded players interested. So far I think the devs are doing a nice job of appealing to everyone, with only a handful of things being seriously out of line (some silver challenges are too hard, some items are broken overpowered, god challenges are imbalanced and serve little purpose other than to frustrate, etc).

I wouldn't worry about any particular players changing the direction of the game's development, because, while the devs do listen to players' feedback, they seem to come up with their own solutions to problems most of the time.
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Re: Rambling

Postby Lujo on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:01 am

Dude - the devs DO have me on ignore. I cant influence them one bit, and that's the thruth - I'm just good at spotting stuff they overbuff because they want it tried or power-tested, or stuff they overbuf to prop up something they haven't got to working on yet but had plans to. And I'm naive enough to think I can contribute more than I can, even when it might be beneficial. And since I'm also socialy retarded, apparently, at least dislekcia misinteprets me 120% of the times he actually pays attention to what I say and it always turns out I didn't mean what he thought I ment, at least every time he bothers to reply...

And how am I trying to dumb things down, exactly? I liked the CB adjustment - it made me pay attention to my gold. I liked the Bloodmage rework - it made both him and sorcerer distinct. I liked the absolution rework (not necessariyly the particularity of it, just that there was one) - now you cant just prep GG and press one button and steamroll anything sub-vicious. EDIT: Sure, above the curve features can be fun - but is it really the only way to have fun? It's not like there aren't a bunch of other things out there to discover and steamroll with...

And when have you seen me complaining about swift hands, anyway?

And you can pretty much bet, and this is just a figure of speech, not ego, but I don't think there was anyone more hit by the poison nerf than me. If they do anything to Mysterea now - I'd have serious trouble playing the game for a while, but you won't see me complaining about it not being warranted.
Last edited by Lujo on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rambling

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:26 am

The key to being understood is brevity.

If you can condense your argument down into one or two sentences then provide supporting evidence it will be much harder to pick apart. Also, avoid broad statements
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Re: Rambling

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:28 am

You have good ideas, Lujo, but trouble articulating them concisely.

An old trick i used to use is always cut half of whatever you write.
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Re: Rambling

Postby Lujo on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:33 am

Good point.

"Dude - I can't influence the devs nearly as much as you give me credit for, and even if I could, they don't seem to understand me very well unless I hit something they've been aware of already. Neither do you, apparently."

How's that?

EDIT: Edided to not be so broad.
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Re: Rambling

Postby Bloggorus on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:05 am

bam, beautiful. specially the last sentence
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Re: Rambling

Postby paplaukes on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:39 am

Boooooze, were you trying to say that an extra badge to get breaks your completion and thus feels wrong? Especially since it's so hard to get. Just curious.

A detour on misclicks... My mouse is getting old and there's a slight chance of a doubleclick instead of a single one every so often. Much fun during regen fights! Or when posting. I sometimes get a message saying "there were new posts made since you wrote this" - and then it shows my own post :)

Lujo, here's an interesting read: Politics and the English Language. It changed the way I think about writing. There's a tl;dr at the bottom if need be.
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Re: Rambling

Postby Lujo on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:47 am

Har, har. You can't begin to grasp how wrong you are.

Tell you what, I just spent an hour recording a Mysterea guide that I had to scrape. I'll just spend another one making one more, then I'll bog down my computer for another hour with rendering it, and then I'll bog down my internet connection with uploading it. Because guys like you really deserve my, or anyone elses whole morning.

And before you say noone wants me to do it - don't.
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