So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby The Avatar on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:51 pm

Hmm... I don't think it would be too static if you assigned a curse to each floor. The floors would still hit you in random order, with random bosses, and you could make it make sense. Ravage to Taurogs floor. Counter: Fireball to MA's floor. First Strike to TT. Curses to GG. Full reveal to JJ. Bloodless to Drac. Nothing to Pactmaker. Hmm... I don't remember the other curses, but one of them to EM and the other to Binlor.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby Sidestepper on Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:50 pm

The problem is usually not with the god/curse pairing (Binlor + revelation being an exception), but with the height of the floor. Curses that badly hamper your character can be a game over if they happen on the last two floors. It would be nice if we got the ability to veto one curse right before it hits, but that would require some funky interface changes.

Also, I think that people are overstating the importance of GETINDERE. I'm not saying it's anything but top tier, but my two most recent victories were done by prepping the Really Big Sword.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby Lujo on Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:32 pm

Sidestepper wrote:The problem is usually not with the god/curse pairing (Binlor + revelation being an exception), but with the height of the floor. Curses that badly hamper your character can be a game over if they happen on the last two floors. It would be nice if we got the ability to veto one curse right before it hits, but that would require some funky interface changes.


True, but landing the no xp floor as your second/third floor can be just as bad in pure show stopping terms. Missing out on expirience there has you either eating too much popcorn which then makes the curse floors mess you up later, or has you fighting tough enemies at lower level which costs you more resources than you can afford. Just saying. The blinking scimitar, if found early, can also be quite a bit of a pain.

Sidestepper wrote:Also, I think that people are overstating the importance of GETINDERE. I'm not saying it's anything but top tier, but my two most recent victories were done by prepping the Really Big Sword.


And this is why I don't have a clue about the value of any feedback I can give. God knows how well tested the current VGT is, and God knows what I'm not aware of that works in there. I just know that GETINDARE is gamechanging if you play the way I do, and that I can't think of anything that would be more conistently powerful. Doesn't mean it's not there.

Heck, before I figured the transmuter out, it wouldn't occur to me that he's viable at all.

As for the RBS, I made good use out of cleansing to turn my damage into magic damage as a means of bypassing physical protection, and the reliance on getindare ment that I couldn't use platemail, so a way to both use platemail and lower resists throuhgh RBS sounds good. Since there is actually very few magic resist monsters in there overall, I'd say a Half-Dragon might actually be able to do it. I'd still prep RBS for the golems, but it might really make good blobs, wraiths and the illusion quite a bit less bad, and if you could slam stuff into stuff, it'd help with some other things too...
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby The Avatar on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:45 pm

Hmm... It depends. The reason GETINDARE is so good is its worth is based on the amount of monsters in the area. If the damage from a monster would require you to regen 7 tiles, using GETINDARE saves 4 tiles. The more times this happens, the more it adds up. Now lets consider the RBS. It's worth is based on the amount of physical damage monsters. If the RBS saves you one extra hit against the earlier monster, it saves you all seven tiles. So basically, RBS pays off more with physical resist guys (and HUGELY against Horratio), while GETINDARE has a constant payout that is a little smaller.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby Sidestepper on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:13 pm

The RBS is especially good with the Vampire. Life Steal is capped by the damage actually dealt. With a high conversion Vampire, you are getting only half of the health back from a Goo Blob as you would some other monster. The sword makes it possible to use Goo Blobs as average-ish blood cattle, and dramatically improves your efficiency against non-cattle Goo Blobs by both decreasing the net loss per hit AND the number of hits needed.

With the Monk, his damage is low enough that I preferred the consistency of guaranteed resistance piercing over one free and strictly mediocre hit.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby The Avatar on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:39 pm

For monk, RBS is in direct competition with the badge. I just took a Packrog monk into VGT and cleaned up. Ending with 75% resist both and 80+ damage makes you unstoppable as a monk.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby Darvin on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:45 pm

Ideally you'll find BYSSEPS, which is just plain awesome for a Monk on VGT. Pierce resistances and boost your attack bonus at the same time.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby Ach Wheesht on Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:50 pm

Sidestepper wrote:The RBS is especially good with the Vampire. Life Steal is capped by the damage actually dealt. With a high conversion Vampire, you are getting only half of the health back from a Goo Blob as you would some other monster. The sword makes it possible to use Goo Blobs as average-ish blood cattle, and dramatically improves your efficiency against non-cattle Goo Blobs by both decreasing the net loss per hit AND the number of hits needed.


Relevant: I just beat VGT for the first time ever! Overview here: http://i.imgur.com/N1qKIWY.jpg?1

And I don't think I could have done it without getindare.

The thing is, getindare synergises really, really well with bloodsteal, for two reasons:

1. You not only save resources on a finishing blow, you actually heal when you kill something with it. A huge problem with vamps is healing in between battles and this fixes it nicely.

2. Dodge saves a lot of resources in the long run, especially on a map as long as gaan'talet. It is, admittedly, unreliable, but it's basically creating resources out of thin air (and you almost always benefit from it, even if you dodge a blood cows attack). Dodge also helps a ton with horatio.

That also wasnt an ideal run: I brought in a blue scroll with the intent of using it on one of the sensation stones (then immediately converting the other), but I didn't get that floor until last. That bloody troll took forever to kill.

I also brought a slayer wand (It apparently doesn't work on anything that's not on the main floor) and messed up my whupaz potion (thinking it left enemies at 75% of their current health, not their maximum, so horatio took a bit longer than expected.) I also didnt find a level 7 meatman until I was halfway through, which was silly.

I did, however, get gloves of midas/balanced dagger early on, and platemail was incredibly useful on horatio, though martyr wraps would have been better, i think. (I was doing 40 damage a hit, which is at least 125 hits on horatio, plus he regenned a bit).

(Bugs: Horatio isn't showing on my kill feed, is he squeezed off to the right or something? I mopped up all the remaining monsters when i was finished, which would explain why he isn't at the end. I'm also 90% sure i should have the specialist badge since, you know, I converted burndayaz as soon as I found it.)

(and if anyone has any other vamp tips I'd love to hear them cause he's the only class I haven't beaten naga city with yet)
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby Lujo on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:31 am

Gratz on the first win!

GETINDARE + Bloodsteal is really, really good, cant be stated enough.

Here's also something to consider for theorycrafting:

Image

It was a complete breeze. Straight up GG + Pactmaker, no boons from GG except cleansing and enlightment, and maybe one protection somewhere. No absolution, and obviously no Drac at any point, and I regen fought horatio with HALPMEH after mistakenly converting Martyr Wraps on the 10th or so stack.

Big thing was CYDSTEP. Yes, the one you can't make an effective strat around. I only converted it at the boss fight. Dodge + perma first strike + high resists + low total health + halpmeh + cydstep. Obviously, the rogue has a built in GETINDARE, and if you dodge somthing you probably kill it for 0 resources, so I reached the end with an unreal ammount of exploration, popcorn, potions and obviously dracul untouched.

No byceps, piercing wand, soul orb, viper ward, or sanguine. Or patches, I think. Didn't even need martyr wraps, I think. And no taking poison off with health and mana potions, obviously, just cleansing and lvl-ups.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby The Avatar on Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:46 am

Already got it. Rogue is probably one of the easier wins in VGT. It's only harder than vamp.
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