So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby Sidestepper on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:09 am

Rogue was my first serious attempt, and it almost won. I made lots of mistakes due to inexperience. I converted BYSEPS because I didn't know about Horatio's resistances, I had several hundred CP worth of obsolete gear in my inventory and shops that I didn't convert until halfway through Horatio, and I also forgot that there was a set of Martyr Wraps available that I had specifically been saving for the end.

I basically consider it to won with Rogue and was more interested in trying new classes. My approach was a little different from Lujo's GG focused set up. I started with GG (scummed, because this place is hard), got Humility + Enlightenment + 100 piety, and then rotated through Taurog (Armor), Dracul (Blood Shield, Blood Hunger, Sanguine x2), Tikki Tooki (Dodge + Poison x1) and then escaped to Mystera. I took the +health pact (Warrior's Pact?) at the end since my resistances were already capped at 45%.

I think that Priest will be the hardest standard class to win with. His best power, Good Drink, doesn't have staying power. Halflings extend the duration, but I've found that Halfling Priests have a hard time outlasting Naga City, so VGT seems out of the question.
Last edited by Sidestepper on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby booooooze on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:43 am

Nobody's doing VVGT? I'm so disappointed in y'all...
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby The Avatar on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:57 am

Try even looking at it. Good luck!

Actually though, the thing is outrageous. I support nerfs to VGT if only to make (V)VGT doable. With extreme luck. Total extreme luck. Horratio does 120 with 7000+ hp. You decide how best to approach.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby booooooze on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:10 am

Nah, I don't even try VGT. I might have at one point, but I don't find it enjoyable.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby Lujo on Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:04 am

Ach Wheesht wrote:2. Dodge saves a lot of resources in the long run, especially on a map as long as gaan'talet. It is, admittedly, unreliable, but it's basically creating resources out of thin air (and you almost always benefit from it, even if you dodge a blood cows attack). Dodge also helps a ton with horatio.


Very true. A combination of dodge and high resists has always been really strong. The rogue managed to not take any spiking boons and regen fight Horatio by exploring simply off HALPMEH, 60& resists and dodges. The perma first strike and the 20% dodge save more resources than probably anything else in the game, and this is true on most maps it's just more obvious in VGT. It's one of those things that you can't really see the true power of elsewhere because you run out of total enemy HP on the screen.

Ach Wheesht wrote:I brought in a blue scroll with the intent of using it on one of the sensation stones (then immediately converting the other)


This I will just have to try, it's genious ^^

Sidestepper wrote:I basically consider it to won with Rogue and was more interested in trying new classes.


Yeah, same here, my first attempt with the Rogue, on the same day before they remade it I think, was a stomp that ended up in a unity crash, but would otherwise been a win. Old Absolution was around and I walked into the GG floor right off the bat, so yeah. I only posted it because I was amazed at how little the Rogue really needs (really, really, little), and that a dedicated CYDSTEP strat worked like a charm.

Sidestepper wrote: My approach was a little different from Lujo's GG focused set up. I started with GG (scummed, because this place is hard), got Humility + Enlightenment + 100 piety, and then rotated through Taurog (Armor), Dracul (Blood Shield, Blood Hunger, Sanguine x2), Tikki Tooki (Dodge + Poison x1) and then escaped to Mystera. I took the +health pact (Warrior's Pact?) at the end since my resistances were already capped at 45%.


Well, my GG centric approach started out as an experiment in doing unorthodox stuff with GG, and ussualy plays out exactly the same as you describe, except I don't take Blood Hunger, and I skip TT. Back in old Gaan'Telet I used to skip GG and start and finish in Mystera, swaping over to drac for the bloodswells.

GG is, sort of, the best choice for a piety farm right now, even prepped (well, I obviously prep him), because of 2 reasons - you don't really have to do anything to farm his piety, it just rolls in. You get plenty even if you prep him. So, because you don't have to do anything but level up and convert stuff (which you want to do anyway), you have some ease leveling. Second reason - Cleansing is really, really good in VGT. The "hit you with every malus floor"? Cleansing! The weakening Illusion? Cleansing, hit once, cleansing + getindare = no weakening and dead miniboss. Fat Goo blob? Cleansing! You take 5 cleansings (4+1 protection)? That's 10 magic resists when you go enlightment - worth an inventory slot.

Also, I sort of think that picking up blood hunger isn't a good move - not only does it limit your resists (big deal if you can push them higher), but it also prevents you from joining GG for protections later on.


Sidestepper wrote: I think that Priest will be the hardest standard class to win with. His best power, Good Drink, doesn't have staying power. Halflings extend the duration, but I've found that Halfling Priests have a hard time outlasting Naga City, so VGT seems out of the question.


Well, depends how you look at it. If you save your 3 indulgences from the obligatory EM desecrations, that's 3 free bloodswells with no piety and popcorn requirements, on a guy with big health. If you can get to the boss with GG + PM, that's not exactly small potatoes (plus you can buy one more for the 10 piety hit, or 5 piety hit if in Drac). Plus, the combo of +100 damage and cleansing is bound to do a number on the wraiths at least, and might help with the early leveling. I'd go human or orc rather than halfling simply because there aren't enough ways to up your damage, and 3 free bloodswells + big health isn't bad against horation on it's own, but it might require at least one of the major horatio killing tools (byceps, rbs, piercing wand, martyr wraps...).

Berserker, on the other hand, I don't know. He has no features relevant to the boss fight unless you save humility for the +20% damage at the boss, which might even be worth it. The fighter could also have big problems. Heck, anyone without LEMISI has to at least scum for something, and then not run into a nasty floor height + debuff situation...

booooooze wrote:Nobody's doing VVGT? I'm so disappointed in y'all...


I'm pretty sure this is sarcasm :D


EDIT: I just tried the priest, and got horatio below half health - with just whoopaz and 3 health potions. Unfortunately, I made a ton of mistakes so I reached horatio with only the 3 potions and 2 protections worth of healing, no halpmeh, no byceps, and no getindare. Really, I used wheytwut, which compares quite badly. Many mistakes, no gloves, soul orb and a pair of martyr wraps (got to 20 stacks) were the only exceptional things, and the floors sucked pretty hard. Human Priest is probably doable. If you could get a halflings damage high enough somehow, and have a byceps or MW for the bossfight, they'd kill him twice over (but no clue as to how to get their damage high enough).

As fr the RBS - I can see the point, obvoiusly, but I can only really see it working on monks (because they start out with enough resists), and vampires (playes unlike anyone else). I'd venture it on paladins, because, again, starting resists (but they have their own problems).
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby Ach Wheesht on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:55 pm

Prepping the zombie dog for use on horatio might work as a priest, maybe?
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby Lujo on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:02 pm

Well, that would translate to about 25 extra damage, I think. Depending on whether it's 100% base, or not. I mean it'd certanly help, but you'd have to save a large inventory slot untill the end. And I'm not sure I'd even consider trying VGT without the dragonshield.

Problem isn't horatio really, if you can get to him with about 60ish resists and a bunch of resources to spare - anyone can kill him then, especially with bycepss or martyr wraps or what have you. The problem is getting enough resists while not drinking up too many bloodpools, eating to much popcorn or wasting the entire binlor floor. The priest can kill H for sure, easier than some, but getting to him in one piece is the problem.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby The Avatar on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:03 pm

Wait. Was that priest on (V)VGT? If so, congratulations on getting that far. I'm interested in hearing you're strategy.
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby Lujo on Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:14 pm

No, no, regular VGT.

As for the strategy - I don't have a clue anymore. I think it's just prep gg, scum for getindare, stack resists prefferably post enlightment, find a good time to join Drac prefferably without wasting the entire binlor floor. With a bit of luck, I think most guys would be able to do it.

I think I would've allready won a couple of times if I don't keep killing myself on the retaliate fireball floor by accident prety reliably.

EDIT: Dangit, had him at 747, with wheytwut, even... Still, made a few costly mistakes, and the only thing good for the end fight was a health potion and platemail... 4 bloodswells and a lot of sanguine fell short of doing it...
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Re: So I took the Transmuter to VGT...

Postby The Avatar on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:15 pm

Almost had him. Horratio was down to 300. If I had used the long rant at the start of the battle I might have won. I made a bunch of dumb mistakes though. This is definitely doable.
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