My views on the game so far...

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My views on the game so far...

Postby Sylliqoue on Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:51 am

I love you're game, absolutely adore it, however i feel that you guys are just out with a shinier version of the alpha that doesn't feel nearly as complete. Please don't get me wrong the money i spent on it was worth it, I just think that the alpha was much more complete, with all those challenges i kept coming back daily over a period of 2 months, and im still only 17/18 on library and crypt (I blame the gorgon for being so inept) and am still trying to beat loltherion ( THAT F*CKING GOAT!). I guess what im trying to say, that as awesome as you're game is, that it just doesn't feel nearly as complete and enticing as the alpha did. Here are my suggestions...

Challenge Dungeons that reward us for how many clears we've had, just like in alpha.
Epic Quests - a campaign set up like loltherion, each race dependent and unlocking something or other.
Don't leave us hanging with Lvl1 Orc Camp, Upgrading is fun, and makes it more interesting, (btw love what you did with the class unlocks)
And finally take a lesson from Valve, Hats, lot's and lot's of hats.

I realize this is still the closed beta, so overall i would say just keep up the good work, and take as long as you feel you need to make it as dazzling as the alpha was.
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Re: My views on the game so far...

Postby spoomak on Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:13 pm

Currently the developers are working hard to create more content. They have promised us a gazillion of unlocks and dungeons in the end product. I'm not sure exactly how much a gazillion is going to be, though. :P

Epic Quests which you mentioned are at the top of my wishlist. I loved Lothlorien the most in alpha.
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Re: My views on the game so far...

Postby dislekcia on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:56 am

Campaigns haven't been spoken about for a while... We've kinda taken them apart with the dungeons unlocking regions thing, maybe we should look at them again.

I can confirm that there is at least 1 hat planned for the game ;)
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Re: My views on the game so far...

Postby Galefury on Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:27 pm

I guess this is a good a place as any for posting general feedback. So here are my views on the game so far:

I finally beat all the dungeons, mostly with pretty easy classes (warlord and monk for the vicious ones, and also berserker, priest and thief for the hard ones, depending on the level of course). The vicious dungeons are really hard, even with preparations, definitely harder than most things in the alpha after making good challenge progress. Looks like some of them cant be beaten by some classes without ridiculous amounts of luck, and even with power combos it was often a very close call (then again I'm sure I don't know all the tricks and strategies yet, and often didn't play quite optimally in retrospect). When going in with a very well-suited class and preparations after scouting the level all of them were doable in one to three tries for me, though, so they definitely weren't too difficult. The current level of difficulty looks pretty good to me considering a bunch of stuff that will most likely make the game easier is still missing. If we can take more gold into the dungeon, more items are added, and some more preparations or other bonuses become available the weaker classes will most likely be able to beat the vicious challenge dungeons without needing quite as much luck.

Also I actually rather liked all four vicious dungeons. My favorite one was probably the Demonic Library, and Namtar's Lair a close second. Fights against multiple bosses or multiple boss forms that require different strategies are fun. Also they make sure every class has its few turns of glory, without being optimal for all of the bosses. The Crypt was a bit annoying, I had to draw a map to remember what level vampires are where. Displaying the level of scouted enemies whose level you know would be quite handy (crypt cloak and fighter sense, not for regular scouting). I am not sure whether I like the vastly differing difficulty of some enemies, like frozen trolls, illusions and animated armours. They just seem to be there to reduce the number of available enemies to fight, as no class can deal with them really well. The problem I have with that is the randomness. Which level enemies get which type has a huge influence on map difficulty. If one or even both level 9 enemies turn out to be animated armours, illusions or frozen trolls you are pretty much screwed, and it's similarly bad for level 8 enemies. At low and medium levels these enemies are actually pretty cool, forcing you to either fight lower level enemies than you would like or expend some piety or potions to go one level higher. But at very high levels these enemies mean that you probably have to start over, which sucks. Capping or fixing the number of high level super enemies might be good.

The only hard dungeons I really liked are Creeplight Ruins (maybe my favorite dungeon in the whole game, so awesome), Havendale Bridge, and the Druid Grove. The other ones I'm pretty indifferent about, cool gameplay, but a lot of annoying stuff. Most of these look beatable with most classes without needing too much luck.


Some random stuff:
I don't really like the prevalence of lifesteal in the beta. I preferred when it was restricted to just one of four challenge dungeons in the alpha. Now half the difficult levels seem to have vampires or those blinky lifesteal thingies. Might get better when more non-eastern dungeons are added I guess. Maybe I just don't like stuff that punishes exploration.

The huge amount of enemies with abilities in challenge dungeons also doesn't seem great to me. What happened to meat men and the like? It's perfectly possible for enemies to be strong or not so strong against certain builds and to require different tactics by just having a different than default HP to damage ratio. Extremely few enemies having more than one ability worked great in the alpha. Now it seems everything has at least one ability in the hard and vicious dungeons, and many enemies have two or even three. I like my complexity emergent, thank you very much.

Enemies should have icons and text for all of their abilities IMO, not just for some. Getanadafix' and the avatar's plant spawning and the cloaking of crypt vampires are the examples of missing ability listings I can think of. Displaying that an enemy will drop an item in the ability list would be good too. Knowing who to kill to get a bomb would certainly make the sludge mines a little less reliant on dumb luck.

I think altars and shops should get their own scout icons. Altars getting a different icon would bring altar scouting more in line with other preparations because you could randomly find altars with the other scouting preparations. Shops using the generic powerup icon just seems weird.


Some dungeon suggestions:
A hard dungeon with two random regular bosses and regular enemies.

A vicious dungeon with three random regular bosses and regular enemies.

A vicious dungeon with multiple levels (3-5 or so) and a guarded entrance to the next level, with level guardians getting stronger (and changing abilities etc.) as you advance. Havendale Bridge taken to the next level basically. A tower or something. Different stuff could be on the different levels. Glyphs on the first level, altars on the second level, powerups on the third level or something. Also the enemy composition and level could change with levels. The possibilities are endless. :)


Some preparation suggestions:
Church: scout high level enemies. Reveals the location of all level 8 and 9 enemies. It is often useful to find these early and know of what type they are.

Church: extra altar. Bigger chance to find a useful god, bigger chance for useful desecration targets, more switching opportunities, but you don't get to use altar scouting or other church preps.

Blacksmith: ring of resilience. Gives you 30% resistance to the next attack on levelup and at game start. Nice bonus, but easily wasted. Especially cool for people who know how to use mid-fight levelups. A different bonus could work too. Obviously inspired by Namtar's trophy, but cheaper and less powerful.



Finally I want to say I really like the beta so far. Looking forward to the next update which will hopefully give us some more content to explore. :)

Edit: I still haven't found the goblins by the way.
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Re: My views on the game so far...

Postby Deadman on Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:14 pm

Galefury wrote:Edit: I still haven't found the goblins by the way.


Arg me either, not sure where to look but I've played every dungeon many times over, it's very frustrating.
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Re: My views on the game so far...

Postby Galefury on Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:21 pm

I actually found them in the first dungeon run after the above post. Southern Swamp worked for me. Bring the 25 gold preparation.
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Re: My views on the game so far...

Postby Deadman on Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:55 pm

Alright, now that I know for sure Southern Swamp can have them I'm gonna keep playing that level over and over.
Thanks ^_^

EDIT- Wouldn't you know, very first attempt at southern swamp and I find the goblin.
Good stuff ^_^
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Re: My views on the game so far...

Postby q 3 on Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:00 pm

Galefury wrote:I am not sure whether I like the vastly differing difficulty of some enemies, like frozen trolls, illusions and animated armours. They just seem to be there to reduce the number of available enemies to fight, as no class can deal with them really well.


Well, Assassins can instakill them if your level is higher than theirs, a Really Big Sword ignores physical resistance, and with enough piety Mystera's Mana Leak can cut them all down to more manageable HP levels. Frozen Trolls are still really annoying, though.
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Re: My views on the game so far...

Postby Galefury on Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:13 pm

RBS only pierces 25% resist now. It's still an okay item.
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